Categories
interviews

Emma O’Brien

Emma O’Brien, she/her, Birthkeeper Herbalism and Lavandoula

Katie: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and a little bit about your practice?

Emma: Sure Katie thanks, my name’s Emma, I use she/her pronouns and I am a professional birth attendant. Snd I do full-spectrum work, so I attend abortions, miscarriage, stillbirth, birth postpartum, lots of stuff. And I’m also a clinical herbalist, so I help people with plants.

Katie: And what are you queering right now?

Emma: Love it. I am queering herbal natal education. So, I have a project right now called Birthkeeper Herbalism that I am putting together sort of class topics on different fertility situations from conceiving to postpartum and doing it in such a way that doesn’t gender plants and people! Which is hard to find in herbal education. There’s a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work and a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work, but in our area, there’s not a lot of overlap. Yeah, so, that’s what I’m queering right now.

Katie: Yeah! And what inspired you to do the work that you’re doing right now?

Emma: It’s a good question, I feel like I was always kinda drawn to support work in one way or another. When I was even in high school, I worked at an organization that did domestic violence advocacy and would sometimes do on call hospital advocacy shifts if folks went to the emergency room after an assault, so that is extremely similar to a birth doula role or an abortion support person. You know, you meet someone in this medical setting that can potentially be uncomfortable or traumatic in this very specific day of their life. So, that was sort of the beginning of the path. And when I met someone who worked as a birth doula, I was like, “that makes sense! I’m gonna look into that.”

Katie: Yeah, and what’s your support philosophy?

Emma: Usually I tell people that their philosophy becomes by philosophy. I really like to support people in their decision making processes. I’m a big information sharer. So when, I mean really like the informed part of informed consent. I really like to nonjudgmentally support whatever your decisions are as long as individuals feel like they have what they need to make that decisions. Whether its an emotional decision or a really fact based research decision. I’m there for it all.

Katie: So I’ve asked you about your natal work, but I’m also curious about your natal chart? Whats your sun moon rising?

Emma: I’m a libra, libra sun, October 4, and a saggitarius moon and gemini rising

Katie: Alright alright I’m a libra rising so I feel like that’s why we’re friends. What’s your favorite thing about being a wueer support person or about working with lgbtq+ families?

Emma: Yes. Just the layer of honesty, I feel like, that’s baseline there, y’know, just the comfortability you have talking to other queer people about these things. So you can say something and not be worried that you’re not gonna be received well. And for many folks, at least in our area, there’s not a ton of queer childbirth prep options or parent groups that are specifically queer and all that. So sometimes being that one queer person touchpoint in someone’s fertility, pregnancy and postpartum is yknow, really meaningful! There are a lot of parents desperate for that, so.

Katie: Especially I think going into some of these very medicalized settings where there’s like so much expectation of what your family looks like or how you talk about yourself to have somebody who you at least know is – who you know at least SEES you in that way can be so valuable to families.

Emma: Totally, I love it.

Katie: Yeah. If you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for queer and trans families, what would it be?

Emma: Ideally, my dream is to connect more queer families with queer and trans birth workers of all types. So, there’s folks who support people through their fertility process, there’s people who are antenatal birth workers who can help you at home if you’re high risk pregnant, y’know, postpartum support. All of that. I just think there are lots of queer people doing all this work out there and I don’t think parents always know where to find them. So, yeah, that’s it!

Katie: What’s one piece of advice you have for new and aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Emma: Well, first of all, thank you, you’re amazing, you’re needed, please stick around, and also don’t go it alone. Yknow, when I first trained as a birth doula in 2010 I was definitely the only queer person at that training. And I wasn’t really sure if I could hang with the whole birth scene in general, so having y’know located a couple other queer or “pro choice” birth workers in the early days would have been really amazing. Took a little while to build that community, so yeah, just don’t go it alone.

Katie: I can certainly attest to what It meant for me as an aspiring birth worker to be able to have you in my community and to have somebody I knew who was really willing to share information and support

Emma: Yeah, no gatekeeping!! Birth is for everybody

Katie: Yes, and finally, what’s something that’s not natal or pregnancy/birth related about you and your life that you wanna share with folks?

Emma: I’ve been thinking about this a lot, cause obviously it’s 2020 and we’re home, but my partner and I are pretty big like urban homesteader type people. So, we literally in the quarantine have tanned leather and canned pickles and I make medicine – obviously as an herbalist, getting a lot of plants and mushrooms from the world and making medicines for people. Um, what else – trying to think. It’s so funny, like, “get yourself a lesbian for the quarantine” or whatever – I’m like, yeah, my partner’s sharpening knives on rocks and it’s very practical. So, yeah!

Katie: Awesome, is there anything else about you or your work that you want to share?

Emma: People can find more about us at lgbtqbirth.com, my project with herbalism and natal topics is birthkeeper-herbalism.com and my actual birth support practice website is lavandoula.com 

Katie: Alright, thank you so much!

Katie interviews emma

Katie: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and a little bit about your practice?

Emma: Sure Katie thanks, my name’s Emma, I use she/her pronouns and I am a professional birth attendant. Snd I do full-spectrum work, so I attend abortions, miscarriage, stillbirth, birth postpartum, lots of stuff. And I’m also a clinical herbalist, so I help people with plants.

Katie: And what are you queering right now?

Emma: Love it. I am queering herbal natal education. So, I have a project right now called Birthkeeper Herbalism that I am putting together sort of class topics on different fertility situations from conceiving to postpartum and doing it in such a way that doesn’t gender plants and people! Which is hard to find in herbal education. There’s a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work and a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work, but in our area, there’s not a lot of overlap. Yeah, so, that’s what I’m queering right now.

Katie: Yeah! And what inspired you to do the work that you’re doing right now?

Emma: It’s a good question, I feel like I was always kinda drawn to support work in one way or another. When I was even in high school, I worked at an organization that did domestic violence advocacy and would sometimes do on call hospital advocacy shifts if folks went to the emergency room after an assault, so that is extremely similar to a birth doula role or an abortion support person. You know, you meet someone in this medical setting that can potentially be uncomfortable or traumatic in this very specific day of their life. So, that was sort of the beginning of the path. And when I met someone who worked as a birth doula, I was like, “that makes sense! I’m gonna look into that.”

Katie: Yeah, and what’s your support philosophy?

Emma: Usually I tell people that their philosophy becomes by philosophy. I really like to support people in their decision making processes. I’m a big information sharer. So when, I mean really like the informed part of informed consent. I really like to nonjudgmentally support whatever your decisions are as long as individuals feel like they have what they need to make that decisions. Whether its an emotional decision or a really fact based research decision. I’m there for it all.

Katie: So I’ve asked you about your natal work, but I’m also curious about your natal chart? Whats your sun moon rising?

Emma: I’m a libra, libra sun, October 4, and a saggitarius moon and gemini rising

Katie: Alright alright I’m a libra rising so I feel like that’s why we’re friends. What’s your favorite thing about being a wueer support person or about working with lgbtq+ families?

Emma: Yes. Just the layer of honesty, I feel like, that’s baseline there, y’know, just the comfortability you have talking to other queer people about these things. So you can say something and not be worried that you’re not gonna be received well. And for many folks, at least in our area, there’s not a ton of queer childbirth prep options or parent groups that are specifically queer and all that. So sometimes being that one queer person touchpoint in someone’s fertility, pregnancy and postpartum is yknow, really meaningful! There are a lot of parents desperate for that, so.

Katie: Especially I think going into some of these very medicalized settings where there’s like so much expectation of what your family looks like or how you talk about yourself to have somebody who you at least know is – who you know at least SEES you in that way can be so valuable to families.

Emma: Totally, I love it.

Katie: Yeah. If you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for queer and trans families, what would it be?

Emma: Ideally, my dream is to connect more queer families with queer and trans birth workers of all types. So, there’s folks who support people through their fertility process, there’s people who are antenatal birth workers who can help you at home if you’re high risk pregnant, y’know, postpartum support. All of that. I just think there are lots of queer people doing all this work out there and I don’t think parents always know where to find them. So, yeah, that’s it!

Katie: What’s one piece of advice you have for new and aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Emma: Well, first of all, thank you, you’re amazing, you’re needed, please stick around, and also don’t go it alone. Yknow, when I first trained as a birth doula in 2010 I was definitely the only queer person at that training. And I wasn’t really sure if I could hang with the whole birth scene in general, so having y’know located a couple other queer or “pro choice” birth workers in the early days would have been really amazing. Took a little while to build that community, so yeah, just don’t go it alone.

Katie: I can certainly attest to what It meant for me as an aspiring birth worker to be able to have you in my community and to have somebody I knew who was really willing to share information and support

Emma: Yeah, no gatekeeping!! Birth is for everybody

Katie: Yes, and finally, what’s something that’s not natal or pregnancy/birth related about you and your life that you wanna share with folks?

Emma: I’ve been thinking about this a lot, cause obviously it’s 2020 and we’re home, but my partner and I are pretty big like urban homesteader type people. So, we literally in the quarantine have tanned leather and canned pickles and I make medicine – obviously as an herbalist, getting a lot of plants and mushrooms from the world and making medicines for people. Um, what else – trying to think. It’s so funny, like, “get yourself a lesbian for the quarantine” or whatever – I’m like, yeah, my partner’s sharpening knives on rocks and it’s very practical. So, yeah!

Katie: Awesome, is there anything else about you or your work that you want to share?

Emma: People can find more about us at lgbtqbirth.com, my project with herbalism and natal topics is birthkeeper-herbalism.com and my actual birth support practice website is lavandoula.com 

Katie: Alright, thank you so much!

Emma: Thanks Katie!

Categories
interviews

Sierra Holland

Sierra Holland, she/her, All Bodies Birth

Katie: Alright, so thanks for hanging out with me today! Just to start, can you tell us a little bit about your practice? 

Sierra: Yeah, so I’m Sierra Holland, I use she/her pronouns and my practice is called All Bodies Birth, so it’s kind of an umbrella for my work in a lot of aspects of reproductive healthcare. I trained primarily as a birth doula and expanded out from there to become a full-spectrum doula. So I do abortion support work, fertility support work, placenta medicine, childbirth education and now I’m a student midwife. So my practice is really focused on people who are oppressed by systems that don’t wanna recognize us, mostly queer, trans and nonbinary folks, religious minority folks, people parenting in creative parenting and family structures, and other people who just get overlooked or written out of the system.

Katie: Awesome, and what are you queering right now?

Sierra: I hope everything, everywhere I go, all the time. As a femme I have to be a little more explicit, like y’know, throwing biosafe rainbow glitter behind me everywhere I go. But generally, spaces around reproductive healthcare and family building. I’m kind of straddling two worlds right now, as a doula I work in the hospital system a lot. So that means making space for people that don’t have a space in that system or who are actively oppressed by that system. And then I’m a student midwife as well, so I’m training to be an out of hospital provider. So that means exciting things like in-home IUIs and preconception fertility care and lots of support for people’s unique family building journeys. I’m kind of in both worlds at once, trying my best to queer them all up. 

Katie: Awesome. And where are you geographically? 

Sierra: I’m located in Portland, Maine, so unceded Wabanaki territory, but I serve all of New England physically and anywhere in the world virtually.

Katie: What inspired you to do the work that you do?

Sierra: Oh goodness. I come from an academic background, so I spent a lot of time studying these things, family building, especially queer fertility. Feeling a sense of distance from the process in the researcher role, you don’t really get to invest in people and make their lives better directly, and that was very frustrating to me. So I knew that I wanted to be in a more practical role where I get to walk alongside individual people and give them the options and support and advocacy that they might not have elsewhere and that as a researcher I could never provide them. So I do it to make more space for people in institutions that don’t like us and to make more opportunities outside those institutions. 

Katie: Awesome, and relatedly, how do you describe your support philosophy?

Sierra: Hmmm. I believe a lot in the power of individuals. And I’m also a sociologist in a past life, so I have a very structural view. What I see is that those things don’t match up a lot of the time. So my support philosophy is really about bridging the gap between individual experiences and needs and institutional limitations. So if you’re choosing to or need to be in a hospital setting, but your identity or family structure or way of existing in the world is one that isn’t recognized by that setting, then my support is in creating the space for you and helping the institution meet you where you’re at. Kind of reducing the harm that can be done when there’s such a disjoint. 

Katie: Awesome, and so to shift gears a little.. We’ve asked you about your natal work, and now I also need to ask you about your natal chart. What is your sun, moon, rising?

Sierra: Yes! I’m a Virgo sun, cancer moon, sagittarius rising but super don’t identify with that. 

Katie: And what’s your favorite thing about being a queer support person working with queer and trans families?

Sierra: Creativity! I mean, queers are the creative people on the planet. Just when you decide that certain rules don’t make sense or don’t apply to you, you can really do anything you want. Like, the freedom to arrange your family however you want, arrange your support system however you want, parent your children however you want. I mean, we’re all living in institutions and systems, right? But there’s just a certain amount of expansiveness that I love about queer folks and trans folks and family building that is radical in that way.

Katie: And if you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for queer and trans families, what would it be?

Sierra: I don’t have just one, I have a laundry list. But, right now I am focusing myself on becoming a provider. So, what I’ve seen is that we need good providers in every space and they don’t always exist where we need them to be, and they don’t always meet the needs of people in individualized and human-centered ways. So right now, the goal I’m working on is becoming another provider that can meet people where they’re at and provide that care. That’s the one that I feel equipped to work on, but my list of things is …

Katie: Rrrreal long?

Sierra: Very, very long. And some days, it’s like, y’know, burn it all down, we don’t have a use for these systems anymore. But most days, I can see the need for them for a lot of people in different situations. I think the other big one I want to change is access. I care a lot about people having access to the kind of care that they need and want when they’re building their families. So that’s hopefully gonna be a cornerstone of my practice. 

Katie: And one piece of advice for new or aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Sierra: Find other people. Other people will make it doable and sustainable. What’s really kept me going the last few years as a doula, in particular, is having a network of queer doulas that understand that our identity is so mixed up in what we do and don’t try to advocate for us to be a different person in those spaces. So: find other queer and trans folks that will see you for your whole self and that you can rant about institutions with often and decompress after tough interactions with institutions. Because nobody understands this work like other queer birth workers, really. Also, don’t train with DONA. You can edit that if you need to, but that’s my…

Katie: (laughing) absolutely not. What’s something not nata/birth/reproductive related about your life that you wanna share?

Sierra: I’m a former, so now retired, roller derby skater and coach. So I love being in environments where alternative forms of masculinity and femininity and being get to thrive and get celebrated. So I spent some time in Boston coaching the little ones on skates- you think having a kid is hard, have a kid on skates. That’s really hard. And that was a big part of my life for a long time. Unfortunately the on call lifestyle of being a birth worker is a little incompatible with that. So, these days I’m a rock climber, climb a lot of rocks, and read a lot of fantasy and sci-fi books with my cat when he will entertain me. 

Katie: Can I ask what your derby name was?

Sierra: Madam Secrescary.

Katie: STOP!

Sierra: Yep, Scary for short. Which is such a good… (smiles) yeah. 

Katie: And where can people find you on the internet-land? 

Sierra: I’ve got an instagram and a facebook under my business name, All Bodies Birth. Also AllBodiesBirth.com. Pretty easy.

Katie: Awesome, and is there anything that we haven’t asked you that the people need to know?

Sierra: Find a queer/trans birth worker near you and ask them what they need on your journey. Find a black or person of color midwife and ask them what they need on their journey. A lot of us are facing barriers to access for getting into this kind of work, and I believe a lot in having care by people who look like you and who have a shared affinity with you. So: find an oppressed birth worker, aspiring birth worker, plant the seed, buy their books from a local bookstore… that’s a really good way to get more of us out in the field to give better care for queer and trans people and other oppressed communities.

Katie: Alright, thank you so much Sierra!

Categories
interviews

Ashley Haden-Peaches

Ashley Haden-Peaches, she/her, Peachy Births Doula and Lactation Services and her Facebook.

Emma: Hey, well, we’re going to dive in a little bit and hear more about your practice, so we’ll just start there. So, can you tell us a little about you, maybe that sweet little baby you have, and the work that you do in the world?

Ashley: So, I have been in my own solo practice for about three years. I trained through DONA. I just do full-spectrum doula practice, I also do childbirth education, I’m a CLC, and I’m gonna be taking my IBCLC exam next year, so really working on that. 

Emma: That’s amazing. IBCLC is such an undertaking. 

Ashley: Yes, oh my gosh, there’s so many things that go into it. So working on that, I do cloth diapering education, babywearing education and I do all of those in group and individual formats. And I’m in Kansas City, I serve the Kansas City metro, and I’ve also gone a little bit out of the Kansas City metro to some surrounding citie.

Emma: Beautiful, thank you for that. Important to know. And are you working with folks over Zoom or online for now?

Ashley: I haven’t been doing that many virtual birth supports, I have done several in-person births at our birth center out here, cause they haven’t been limiting doulas. So I’ve been doing in person births still, but I think some of our hospitals are going back to more limited. They let off of it for a month or two, and I think they’re moving back towards .. I’ll support people in whatever format they’re comfortable with, and whichever their birthing location allows. 

Emma: Thanks for sharing that. Your baby is just like – oh my gosh – so adorable with all the eye contact right now. 


Ashley: She’s like “stop talking, you’re talking too loud, I’m trying to sleep”

Emma: I know, maybe we’ll settle in, maybe we will. What are you queering right now?


Ashley: Y’know, I don’t really know what that question means! I am just working on a class about conceiving via artificial methods, so that’s kind of where I’m focusing on for queer folks. Just trying to put that together and everything made me switch to virtual, so trying to translate that into a virtual format as well. So that’s what I’m working on for queer folks, but just really trying to make connections with the queer community here in Kansas City, so I can support more birthing folks.

Emma: Beautiful, I think that answers the question, y’know! Basically what that covers, I love it. It’s so great to know – a lot of folks don’t connect with other queer people in the conception part of the process, too, so I’m really glad that you’re trying to expand that. That’s awesome. Well, what inspired you to do the work that you do now?

Ashley: So I also have a full time job. I work for a project that helps low-income families. The main purpose of the project is to reduce infant mortality. We know that Black women have the highest infant mortality rates and so it’s really focusing on that community and reducing the amount of infants that die before age 1. So we do safe sleep education and parenting education, lactation support and all those kinds of things that go into getting folks ready to have a baby and make a person. I’ve been doing that for about five years and kind of in the middle of that, I was listening to peoples’ stories about how they were treated during their labor and deliveries. How they felt like their providers were treating them. We’re based in a community health center, so a lot of our folks were having their prenatal care at our community health center and then they’d go to the hospital to deliver. So that means that they didn’t know who the person was who was in the delivery room – the doctor, the provider in the delivery room with them. So that created another layer of issues for folks as far as having their wishes honored —(looking at her baby) You are really staring at me, girl. (laughs)
So just doing that work – I wanted to get more information about how I can support these families and making decisions about their births, and about how they want to bring their children into the world. I came across doula support. We have a community doula program in Kansas City that is working to kind of expand access to doulas especially, especially for Black families. I’d heard about them and I was interested in delving into that world. I just kind of started from there – just wanted to provide more support for the families I was already working with and after that, I got my lactation certificate, my certificate for childbirth ed. I feel like, for most birth professionals, it spirals out of control and you’re getting all of these things and trying to add all these things to your repertoire. 


Emma: It’s true- there’s so many ways to have that touchpoint with people in the process but clearly you’ve been deep in this world for a really long time, so.. Really, really awesome. Thanks for sharing all that. In terms of supporting families more directly, do you have a particular philosophy you want to share?

Ashley: There are lots of different types of doulas and birth professionals out there. I’ve always considered myself more of a birth advocate. I really don’t care how you want to birth or what you want to do, I  just want to make sure that it happens safely and that you’re comfortable when you’re doing it. I am more about the process, I want to make sure that whatever that process is for you it’s what you’re looking for and try to help maintain the fidelity of your wishes and help you get to whatever that end goal is. 

Emma: Beautiful, thanks so much. Well, now for a part that I find fun, what is your sign? We asked about your natal work, and I want to know your sun, moon, rising?

Ashley: So, I’m a Cancer, but I’m not an astrological person so I have no idea what the moon rising and the sun rising thing means? But I see that a lot – I see them and I have no idea what that means. So I really have no idea what the moons and suns are. 

Emma: Totally fair. It’s where those were positioned at your time of birth. But my dad and my sister are Cancers, so I feel ya at least that much. I’m using this as an opportunity to learn more myself. I’ve been surrounded by people who are into it for long enough, and I’m like, you know what? I’m just gonna go with that. Well, what’s your favorite thing about working with LGBTQ+ people, or being a queer support person in the perinatal sphere?

Ashley: I just really appreciate being able to have so many different family experiences. Have that reflected in the families that I see and then in my own family. It’s really great to build that community with folks and have our kids be able to see other families reflected (baby noises), and just being able to make those connections with families that are the same and different and look all different kinds of ways. 

Emma: Baby’s like, so into it. I’m so glad.

Ashley: She’s really into you right now.

Emma: We’re hanging out! This is cool, I haven’t digitally hung out with enough babies – or in person – this year, so. If you could pick a particular thing to improve about the experience overall – conceiving, pregnancy, postpartum – for queer/trans families, what would that be?

Ashley: I think that even as a person who, so my wife had our first baby, and then I had this one. So now we’ve got two kids, and I think just going through this process myself – you really don’t know. Especially going through it the first time, you really don’t know everything that’s out there and all the supports that are available. So I wish that families just knew that there are supports for the entire process. It is possible to  – and I have people ask me about inducing lactation a lot, and that’s what I’m really passionate about. I induced lactation for our first kiddo to a full supply, I nursed her for 14 months and then after that I was like, I’m done pumping, let’s– cause I spent a lot of time doing that. So I’m really passionate about that, and I had just happened to stumble across this information pretty early on when we were starting to think about having babies. It makes it really difficult if you don’t get that information soon enough, so I just really wish that people know about all of the information that’s available around inducing lactation or on finding support prenatally and for labor and delivery. Just knowing there are people out there who are interested in helping folks create their families, multiply the love, all that. 

Emma: Thanks so much. And that’s SO. COOL. That you were able to induce lactation to a full supply, you should be super proud, that’s amazing. I just think so many people would love to learn from that experience. I’m curious if you have any advice for new or aspiring queer and trans birth workers, childbirth educators, queer family members..

Ashley: The first thing I would say is try to network with other birth professionals in your area. I don’t, I mean… there aren’t that many queer folks here in the midwest doing this work. There’s just some of us, but just not enough for sure. Just trying to make those connections. I’d love to make a queer doula collective for Kansas City, just so people have a starting point of where they can look to for all those supports I was talking about. Just networking with people in your community. I also think it’s really important that if you decide to go for certification for any of the possibilities of things you can get certified for that you really do some research into that agency, and making sure that they align with your values. 

Emma: That’s awesome advice. I love it. And perhaps, the answer is, “Kansas City queer doula collective,” but is there anything that you want to cross pollinate in the community, if you’re putting out feelers for anything, what can we help you connect with?

Ashley: Yeah, for sure. I know of a couple other queer doulas in Kansas City, but again we don’t have enough. And I don’t know that the queer community in Kansas City knows about what doulas do and how to reach us and that kind of thing, so for sure trying to establish that baseline of information for folks. Of course I offer all those classes, and just trying to provide that information to folks.

Emma: Thanks so much. Is there anything not perinatal about your life that you want to share? It seems like you’re pretty deep into that world, but yeah…

Ashley: Yeah, I do a lot of birth work. I also do a lot of social justice work. I help run a youth social justice camp every summer. This summer, we had to cancel, so that was hard after doing all the recruitment all spring and last fall and this happening to people, eugh. Don’t think we’ll do anything this year, and it’s just going to be so difficult to make it into some kind of virtual format. All of all our experiential activities are so based on being in person. But we’re definitely talking about how to navigate that so that we can do more things that are a little nontraditional as far as being in person, doing those activities. We’re talking about it. So I’m really passionate about social justice and birth work and helping to combine and meld those arenas so that I can do all of the things that I love at once. 

Emma: Amazing. Well, it looks like you’re working on it, it looks like it’s working out. You’re doing amazing. Well, where can people find you on the internet, and find you and support your projects?

Ashley: My solo company is Peachy Births, Doula and Lactation Services. I am only on Facebook and I have a website. I am an “older” millennial, I guess, so I don’t use instagram (laughs) or, I’m on Twitter.. Actually, I’m not on Twitter… I’m on Twitter personally, but I just don’t use it.

Emma: That’s a perfectly good answer. I literally haven’t used Instagram, I make Katie do it. So .. that’s..(laughs) this is cool. Awesome. Well, I’m gonna thank you so much, and thanks to your sweet baby for being so amazing during this recording and we’ll talk soon.