Tag: full spectrum doula

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interviews

Jenna “JB” Brown

Jenna “JB” Brown, they/he, @loveoverfearwellness, Love Over Fear Wellness & The Queer & Pregnant Journal, Queer Conception Stories

Katie: Hi there! 

JB: Hey! 

Katie: So let’s just get started with you telling us a little bit about who you are and about your practice and the work that you do.

JB: Sure! I want to acknowledge that I am sitting next to a thunderstorm, so there may be background noise. My names Jenna, I use they or he pronouns and I’m a white transmasculine non-binary full-spectrum doula and educator. Typically I describe myself and my work a lot more in depth and that gives me access to other spaces, but I know we’re here just to kind of do a little overview and hello, so: A little bit about my practice is that while I do full-spectrum work meaning I support people preconception all the way through pregnancy outcomes of various kinds into postpartum. I’m also passionate about giving that model of care to all kinds of life transitions, transformations and the education work that I do spans from education that I do with my clients around the kinds of systems and experience that they’re navigating, as well as education and consulting that I do with other birth professionals, family professionals, professionals at large in all kinds of different fields around trans inclusion. I run a mentorship program, too! And do some content creation, so y’know, a little bit of everything (laughs).

Katie: Truly a birthworker of many hats. What are you queering right now?

JB: Oof. What am I not queering? Before we started recording, we were just touching on some lighter conversions about being in community with people and sharing space and what to do when conflict comes up. I think queering conflict resolution sounds really important to me right now. As we’re recording this, we’re in September of 2020 in the middle of the global pandemic and social movement and that as birth workers, as reproductive workers, I feel it’s our responsibility to be in the middle of all that. It’s part of the work, it’s central to our work, it’s the foundation of our work. Reproductive justice being intertwined through all of that. For me, queering that kind of conflict resolution of these uncomfortable, difficult conversations that constantly come up in the work that I do, looks like being nonbinary about how we see everything. There’s not a right and a wrong way now. I don’t know – I’m queering everything, but that’s what I feel most excited to be queering right now. 

Katie: Yas. Oh, I loooove that. Love that lens. And so necessary – such a place where so often we get stuck in conflict for so many people.. Sends people into binary thinking and to be queering conflict resolution or conflict transformation in that way is so regenerative. What inspired you to do the work that you do?

JB: I feel like for so many folks who end up doing birthwork or reproductive work – not to be binary about it – but there’s like these camps of either you’ve gestated a pregnancy to term and that’s what kind of drew you in to this work or you haven’t and then it feels like a bigger “why” or “how” to answer when people ask. I think in parts, I was inspired to do this work because of my own experiences both as someone who has accessed abortion as a trans person and experiences as a trans person navigating day to day life in addition to care systems. And in part, by my community. Especially as I got older and I was already in spaces where I was serving as an educator, having discussions with people about their holistic wellness. As I got a little bit older in those roles, more of the folks that I was in community with were having children and kind of hearing about their experiences especially but not only the experiences of folks in shared queer community … just being really distraught! For them, and alongside them. Knowing that it didn’t have to be that way, and wanting to do whatever I could to make a difference. Oh hi kitty! (Black cat walks in front of Katie’s screen)

Katie: Yeah. Truffle’s here. This is Truffle. She’s gonna just show off a little bit. 

JB: I feel a little bit like I was called into it by others and part of that overused idea that we want to “be the change that we want to see in the world.” Some layer of truth to that. 

Katie: Absolutely (cat). There’s that nugget of resonance in the overused or in the sort of thing that has become more cliche. How do you describe your support philosophy?

JB: Person-centered. That’s what I always say. I feel like, increasingly over the last year especially that’s become more and more of a buzz term, which makes me very frustrated. I think it’s right up there along with “trauma-informed” and “trans inclusive” in terms of buzz words. I don’t expect anyone to show up in a particular way, regardless of the type of experience they’re moving through. Or what their identities look like from the outside, what their support system looks like from the outside. I don’t expect them to think or feel anything in particular as a fixed set of needs until they’ve had the space to explore what those needs are and communicate them with me. So that’s what person-centered means to me. 

Katie: So I’ve asked you a little bit about your natal work, but I also now need to ask you about your natal chart. What’s your sun, moon and rising? 

JB: I’m a Leo sun, Aquarius moon, Virgo rising. Enneagram type 8.

Katie: Oh! Oh!!! Okay, okay. 

JB: ENFJ…….

Katie: Just throwin’ em all in!! (laughs)

JB: (laughs), just so you get a sense of who I am.

Katie: Did you say Leo sun?

JB: (thunder)

Katie: Wow. I love throwing in the… you start asking about the enneagram now.

JB: I just always ask my clients like, how do you understand yourself? I don’t care what framework they use, if they want to tell me their Harry Potter house, that’s fine too. They can use any system for self-awareness. But I’m like, “How do you make sense of who you are? Is it astrology? Is it Meyers-Briggs?”

Katie: Fair enough, yeah! (laughs) And what’s your favorite thing about being a queer and nonbinary support person or about supporting queer and trans families? 

JB: I think that… and this is a generalization, but there are some generalizations I feel perfectly fine with making… But like, the amount of intention that goes into family building. Obviously, there are some queer families and queer couples who have the genetic material that’s in their family or within their couple to conceive. And there are also many that don’t. There are often additional steps, additional choices to be made along the way and I just don’t find that that level of intention is a given for many people who are family-building. I appreciate that working and centering my work around trans and queer experience means that that’s generally who I get to work with! When I do work with folks who are not LGBTQ themselves, that’s really what I’m looking for – right? In terms of being a birth worker and doing this kind of deep relational work with people, there’s a lot of conversation in communities that do this work around burnout. I’ve found that the hardest thing, the thing that contributes most to my burnout is working with folks who are going through the motions and not really willing to even give themselves space to identify what their preferences or their needs are. I don’t find that to be the norm in working with LGBTQ families. I find that the norm IS there is a lot of intention already. So let’s tap into that and keep peeling the layers back. 

Katie: Absolutely, and I know that – I’m sure there’s a long list of answers to this question but if you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for LGBTQ+ folks and families, what would it be or where would you start?

JB: So, I think you already acknowledged that there are so many ways to answer this question. And it’s so tempting to say things like, “I want it to be more equitable in terms of access to resources” or simple things like, “Access to affirming care.” Second parent adoption… for that to not.. not even be a thing! Or for it to be more accessible if it has to be a thing, right? But to me- I think some of those answers lend themselves toward this “assimilation” into cultures, structures, norms that we already know are a disservice to most people, queer or not. I think where I would want to start is liberation for everybody – queer or otherwise. What’s hard about that answer is that there is no clear answer, and what’s exciting about it is there’s so many possibilities! It’s like an imagination question – like, what would a liberated experience for queer and trans families BE around pregnancy, birth or life in general?

Katie: Yes. Oh. Ohhh. So energizing! I adore that answer. Truffle does too. Very pro-liberation. (Giant cat yawn) She’s also bringing her own thunder to this. What’s a piece of advice that you have for new and aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

JB: Find community! We can’t do this work in isolation. You and I both know there’s so many of us doing this work and it’s really exciting. In seeking folks who are interested in doing some more work who have similar identities, at least on paper, maybe some similar experiences, maybe even some similar value systems and frameworks for understanding not just the work they do but the way that they see the world. Even with all of those similarities, expect there to be conflict and expect there to be disagreement and don’t let that be discouraging. I think conflict and comparison, once people are stepping into this work and seeking community and making connections and finding spaces that feel resonant they can really easily (and I see this in my mentorship program all the time) get trapped in this place where either comparison or conflict stops them. Also seek out the type of care that you need to support yourself through those discomforts because they will come up. 

Katie: The framework of comparison or conflict being barriers for folks is so …. What a helpful naming! I know there are many projects floating around in your work – are there any that you want help cross-pollinating with other that are in the community? 

JB: Yeah! So, Ray Rachlin of Refuge Midwifery and I are working on a directory, not unlike LGBTQ Birth, but that’s trans-centered specifically. So that’s both a provider directory and a place for queer conception stories to live. It’s called Queer Conception Stories dot com! I think we’re seeking definitely more submissions in terms of stories and providers for the directory. I also think that, more largely, I hear so many of (myself included) of this community of queer and trans birth workers expressing the desire to specifically apply this model of care to gender trandition, social or medical. So all of us have that, and I think, have shown up in that work in different ways in our own communities. And there’s a few organizations that are doing that work in a more structured way, but I would love to see collaboration around –let’s actually make that happen on a large-scale. In a really cohesive, collaborative way. So that’s just like a seed that I like to plant any chance I get. 

Katie: Yes! Definitely something that I want to watch blossom. Yes! What else?

JB: There’s so many facets, too. I find myself reaching out to different kinds of professionals all the time. Someone planted the seed in my head of: for a lot of trans people, it’s very important to have a living will. Especially but not only if your name, your gender don’t align with things like your legal gender marker or your legal name. I’ve reached out to lawyer friends to ask “What would it be like to create a system for this to be a free service for trans people?” So I think there’s all these really awesome possibilities if we pool our resources and put our heads together to come up with systems for making these kinds of obstacles that we know are unfair and unjust – a little bit easier to traverse for people. So. Just naming that I think we need to call in more than just birth workers.

Katie: Yeah, absolutely. That’s something that’s very dear to my heart with my spiritual care hat on. I’ve worked as a hospital chaplain, and I’ve seen the places where because of who gets listed on advance directives, or people who have never made them, didn’t know they needed one and then suddenly the hospital “next of kin” hierarchy says, “OK, well, your mom now gets to make all of your medical decisions regardless of whether or not you’ve spoken to your parents in however long.” I’ve certainly seen that play out in really uncomfortable ways professionally and obviously so many people have personal experience of being in those situations. So important. I guess that’s also possibly one answer to this question, but what are some other things that are not natal or reproductive focused about you and your life that you wanna share? 

JB: I think I fall into the category of “my work is also sooooooo deeply enmeshed with my identity” that it can be hard to say. But. Pre-pandemic, I’ve sung in multiple queer choirs so I love to do that. I go to stand-up comedy open mics and try my hand at that

Katie: (gasps)

JB: So there’s places that I find I can take off the identity of doula for a second and set it down and bring some more levity about a life and a lifestyle that can be really heavy. So I love that, and I’m also, before getting into doula work, I was an environmental educator so of course spending time outside, being around animals, gardening. All things that I love. In terms of not natal but still adjacent – if everything is reproductive justice (which I do believe), just contributing to community organizing efforts, mutual aid efforts when and where I can and how I can with the resources that I have feels like it overlaps with work and also isn’t completely separate from the direct client care that I do as a birth worker. 

Katie: I am so excited about your post-pandemic stand-up sets. Wowow. wow.

JB: I’ve written like three jokes during this pandemic – it’s been rough. It’s been rough, y’all, I’ve tried. We’ll come out the other side.

Katie: Until that happens, where can people find you on the internet? (laughs)

JB: Not making jokes. I still try. 

Katie: Not making jokes, where can people find you being really serious on the internet?

JB: Because I’m really, really not gifted at introducing myself – I haven’t even named that my practice is Love Over Fear Wellness.

Katie: (laughs) We’ll link it at the beginning, it’s gonna be fine!

JB: So! @LoveOverFearWellness on Instagram or Facebook, and Loveoverfearwellness.com is where folks can find me.

Katie: Alright Jenna, thank you SO much. This was such a delight!

Categories
interviews

Katie Byron

Katie Byron, they/them, https://www.birthwithkatie.com Katie’s Instagram

Emma: Hey Katie

Katie: Hi

Emma: How are you today? Nice to see you.

Katie: Nice to see you too, doing well!

Emma: Awesome, do you wanna tell us a little about you and your practice?

Absolutely. So my name’s Katie Byron, I use they/them pronouns. I provide full-spectrum reproductive support. So supporting folks through pregnancy, birth, postpartum, also abortion, miscarriage, other pregnancy losses. I am also a childbirth educator and a social worker

Emma: Awesome. That’s a lot, love it. What are you queering right now?

Katie: I am queering … one of the things I’m queering right now is perinatal mental health. It’s certainly a space in which there is certainly a lot of folks who are straight and cis who have a lot of experience working with queer and trans people and famlies. AND there are not as many folks who are queer/trans/nonbinary themselves in this work and it is certainly a place where I think there is deep need both for more education and for folks who are actually from queer and trans communities to be doing the work and to be in positions to be providing support to specifically queer and trans families.

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for that, that’s awesome. And such a good point, too, y’know, with all perinatal work, there’s plenty of straight and cis people who say they have experience working with queer families, and that’s great if people feel like they’re a good fit. And also, there’s so much more to it than that. So, thanks for bringing that to the table. What inspired you to do the work that you do?

Katie: A couple, a few spaces – the most, well, one of which being my personal experience particularly as a fat femme person and living in a world where a lot of people have a lot of opinions about my body and what my body does in space and the size of my body and the shape of it has me feeling particularly attuned to the way that bodies get the amount… the amount that our society puts on bodies during reproductive changes, and so there’s something that’s both personally very liberating and healing for me in doing this work of helping and accompanying people as they are finding new ways to claim their bodies as their bodies change. On sort of a more practical note – I like got to college as a young white feminist and was like, “Oh yeah! The way to express my politics is to become a clinic escort at Planned Parenthood.” So, that was work that I did for a couple of years in college and was a space where I saw those micro-interactions mattered to people. That having someone who is going to smile as they walk you from your car, or who is going to ask about where you got your shoes to drown out the sounds of protesters meant something. I certainly think that’s work where I built a lot of my skills around establishing rapport with people and shaped how I approach people understanding that I might be approaching people who are about to step into who knows what kind of shaming/judgmental landscape. It was in that work that I started to learn about other forms of abortion support work and actually found out that there were people who did support work around abortion. After I finished college, I moved down to DC, I did a training with the DC Doulas for Choice Collective and started working in clinics providing support to folks around abortion experiences. That for me was really a transformative space of realizing, this is in fact not about my politics. That was a wild presumptive mindset. And that really the thing that was so moving to me about the work was not because it was some expression of my politics in any kind of way, but it was about the experience of being with people and of sitting with just the messiness of what an abortion meant to someone or what any kind of reproductive experience might mean for someone. Whether it’s the thing that means you get to go on your vacation and have margaritas without any sense of guilt or if it’s like a really complicated thing that is tied into feelings about a relationship or whatever else. Often, when I think about what inspired me to get into a lot of the work that I do, I think back to some of those initial clinic experiences and the people who I had the honor of getting to sit with and and be with and got to really fall in love with that way of being with people. 

Emma: Yeah, that’s really awesome. So drawn in via maybe college politics and then stuck around for the actual human element of it. That’s awesome. I think a lot of people are gonna go through that similar transformation, so it’s where a lot of people have their starting point. Thanks for sharing. What’s your support philosophy? 

Katie: Yeah, I fundamentally will tell people that I think… I approach this with an understanding that reproductive support work is fundamentally about justice work. My support philosophy comes from a place of acknowledging that we live in a society that has privatized all kinds of care in ways that are not aligned with how humans have at any point in history done care for each other. My support philosophy is rooted in the fact that I don’t really think that any of the hats I wear “should” exist as professions. And, nonetheless, we live in a society that has told us that your community’s not gonna show up for you in hard times or when you’re going through big life transitions. So the way to get support is to bring in some private individual who has “specialized training.” My support philosophy, acknowledging the fact that, it’s messed up that we have to have this at all, comes from a place of really trying to empower people to make real choices about what they want their experience to be like, what tools they already have to deal with hard or big things, and about what kind of story do you want to be able to tell about this experience? This is not – at times, it might feel like something that is happening TO you, and that’s super real, and what kind of sense can we make out of that? What are the ways that this can be integrated into the story of your life? How do you want to understand this experience? So that’s a lot of how I approach my support work.

Emma: Amazing, I love it. To acknowledge sort of the history of any kind of support work, being not a “professional” role that you do training to do. It’s because of the system that we have these roles, because the system doesn’t have these roles in it. So, uh – amazing! Thank you so much for bringing that up. OK! So we’ve talked about your natal work, what’s in your natal chart! Tell me your sun, moon, rising. 

Katie: I am a Capricorn sun, virgo moon, libra rising. 

Emma: Nice, alright alright. Libras!

Katie: I feel like there’s a lot of libra energy in birth work.

Emma: That’s awesome. I’ve never had anyone say that to me, but I have clients ask me my chart sometimes, and I’m like, “Libras get along with everyone, so it’s cool.”

Katie: I’ve definitely seen threads of birth workers talking about their charts, and I feel like I’ve seen a lot of libra energy.

Emma: Right on, libras, hit us up! Amazing. So what’s your fabroite thing about being a queer support perosn or working with LGBTQ families?

Katie: Yeah, one of my favorite things about queering support work is about the ways that we’re able to acknowledge relationships. I think that particularly in medical systems, and y’know I’ve worked in hospitals as a social worker as part of my social work training, I also wear another hat in a spiritual care realm – I’ve served as a chaplain in hospitals. Something I consistently see is the way that there are real hierarchies of relationships in medical settings. In part, cause there are “next of kin” hierarchies about who gets to make medical decisions for you in an emergency. So, you know, married legal spouses win all the time. I think something that’s really special about queer folks doing support work is that we know that that’s not always and possibly not most of the time true. To be able to acknowledge: who are the most important people in your life around this experience? Maybe the answer is a monogamous partner. Maybe the answer is an aunt who you know had a similar reproductive experience, or a close friend who has been with you for all of the hard times. Or it is a space where actually the person who is best equipped to support you is your metamour who you don’t get along with and actually don’t talk about all that much with… but, this is something that you have a shared experience around and they’re gonna be your… really gonna be your person. Or they’re really organized in a way that’s gonna be helpful. I think that being able to not have… walking in without assumptions about who is going to be most important to you or which relationships are going to be the thing to hold you in this is something that I think is one of my favorite things. To just see all the way that people build community and family. 

Emma: Yeah, that’s awesome. And it really is in these times that those kinds of relationships get tested and called on and it’s like, who’s name do you write on your paperwork and all your medical stuff? That’s a really, really good point! If you could improve one thing about the experience about queer and trans birthing families, what would it be?

Katie: I would do so many things. But if I could change one thing, it would be for providers of all kinds to actually take seriously the words that people use to talk about what’s happening to them and their bodies. Which, I think about both in particular with queer and trans families – the family names that people want used. It’s not…. in every other part of clinical training, people are taught to use the words that your patient or your client uses. And yet, somehow, when it comes to queer and trans families, somehow all of that knowledge just falls out of people’s heads. Or about reproductive experiences in general – I’ve certainly seen, I’ve heard plenty of really horrific stories of medical providers who suddenly don’t have any helpful words to say around abortion, around pregnancy loss. And I think certainly, also, the experiences of all kinds of marginalized people who are telling people about things they’re experienced in their bodies and are being dismissed, or written off, or not taken seriously. I think if I could change one thing, it would be for providers to actually hear the words that people use, take them seriously, and then reflect those words back at people. 

Emma: Amazing. I think that would make lots of subsequent changes! So… good answer, amazing. Do you have any advice for new and aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Katie: If there’s one piece of advice I would give… you get to, this can be a “choose your own adventure” style path. I think there are a lot of setup in birth world that is like, “You have to do your training, and then you follow the step by step guide to get certified in whatever it is that you trained in, and then you somehow find clients, you probably undersell yourself for the sake of climbing up this… I just think that so many people get stuck and so many people don’t stay in birth work. People who we need in our communities and who the families in our community need as birth workers and as support people because they get lots in the bureaucracy or in the what they think is the step by step thing, and I think the reality is: there are very few rules and if the organization you trained with has a certification process that is trash, you don’t have to do it.

Emma: Yes!


Katie: Right? Like, if the reading list for your training organization is a bunch of heterocis-centered nonsense, like, you don’t have to do it! And if you feel like some step in the process has made it so you’re being asked to do something that’s not aligned with your values, or not how you want to practice, or makes you feel like you need some sort of extra specialized training to know how to do the stuff that you intuitively have been doing your entire life, you don’t have to do it. 

Emma: Amazing, I love it. As someone who, y’know, has been an uncertified birth attendant for ten years – I’m all about it. There’s very little benefit to that depending on the states you live in and the legislation and all that. I like the choose your own adventure advice. That’s good.

Katie: And I think there’s so much that’s like, there are a lot of particularly white cis straight birth workers who have really commodified specific types of training that you dont’ actually have to pay hundreds of dollars to learn how to do that. And I think there’s a lot, I see this a lot in the mental health field. Right? That there are all kinds of very expensive trainings you can do about like, “How to support LGBTQ clients” that are taught by straight people who have all thix “experience “ in part to train queer and trans people who don’t have the “right certifications” to do the thing that they do for their community and all of their clients all of the time. Right?

Emma: And it’s like, who is the money going to? Where are these resources being given? …So what’s something not natal about your life that you want to share with people?

Katie: Something not natal about my life is that I am — yeah, sure! I am trying to think through things that I do. A not natal thing about my life is as I mentioned earlier, I also wear some spiritual care hats. I’m also getting a masters in divinity, which is in part related to natal stuff, it’s certainly in this realm of holistic spiritual and emotional care for folks. But also means that I’m a little bit of a theology nerd. Also always down to talk theologies of liberation. 

Emma: Right on! Liberation theology folks, hit us up! Amazing, Katie, so where can people find you on the internet?

Katie: You can find me at LGBTQBirth.com, my personal birth support website is BirthWithKatie.com you can also find me on instagram @birthwithkatie. 

Emma: Amazing, thank you!

Categories
interviews

Mystique Hargrove

Mystique Hargrove, she/they, Website and Instagram and Facebook

Emma: Well, welcome, thanks for hanging out with me a little bit this afternoon. I’m really excited to hear more about you and your practice, so do you want to introduce yourself, say where you’re at geographically, and a little bit about the work you do in the world.

Mystique: Thank you, I’m really excited to be here. This is a really dope and amazing experience. My name is Mystique Hargrove, pronouns she/they. I reside here and provide services for Greensboro, NC and the triad surrounding communities. Do a little virtual consultations, services as well. My titles or what I do, I will keep it very general cause it’s a long list and I didn’t realize it until I do these things – I do a lot. So, I’m a certified full-spectrum doula, certified herbal medicine practitioner, community lactation professional and advocate, aspiring to be a future IBCLC, that is in the works, hopefully next year. Doctoral student – woo! A counselor in education in supervision. I’m a single, radical, parent mama as I’m called by my 5 year old, and yeah I’m a part of the LGBTQ community. I’m a very open bisexual, Black, feminine nonbinary… also identify as a woman because that’s just the energy, the femininne energy I align with. What else do I do? I do consultations, I do birth work, I provide postpartum care whether its for birthing bodies, whether its for bodies who’ve terminated pregnancy, grief and loss, also helping with the recovering and healing aspects of either if they want to conceive again or if they just want to heal in general. Kind of the mental health and wellness aspect of it. An aspiring soon to be out of retirement counselor in the community, because that is definitely also needed. So, pretty much, my focus my work is mainly for BIPOC individuals, specifically Black individuals and Black LGBTQ individuals of color. My business pretty much started with servicing sex workers in the black LGBTQ community in the herbal medicine aspect, so I still do that as well. So that is all of what I do in general. 

Emma: Absolutely incredible. We are so glad to, y’know, have you out in the world and be able to kind of even hear you talk about vaguely the scope of what it is you embody is amazing. So to come off of that question and draw more on those queer parts, what are you queering right now?

Mystique: I’m queering the acknowledgement and the awareness.. Checking ignorance, checking biases, just not being ashamed of being my own self and living in my truth. I always say, I was not living in my truth before I “walked in my truth.” I was out, but I was hidden, because I hid myself from y’know, the world. I’m very like, “Yes, I’m bisexual.” just because my partner is a cis man, does not mean now I’m heterosexual. Just because I have a girlfriend does not mean I’m a lesbian! I’m attracted to both genders, I’m pretty much attracted to whatever energies align with me, attracted to me. I’m just loving myself, embracing all pieces of me. Especially those pieces that I’m also healing from when I used to hide myself and not be so out and knowing that I do have a community that accepts me and loves me and can protect me throughout all this mess that is happening. 

Emma: Absolutely, we really need each other.

Mystique: Yes!

Emma: So thank you for sharing that. So, originally – I don’t know what your starting point was to get into this work, but what kind of inspired you to be where you’re at today?

Mystique: My own personal experience when I was pregnant with my now rebellious five year old. I had a very traumatic birthing experience where both of our lives were almost lost. Nobody was listening to me, pretty much ignoring me, it was neglect, my birth plan was thrown out the window. Things I know now – I reflect back and I’m like – that was abuse and neglect, that experience. My own experience and advocating that and kind of creating this circle of other Black folks or other people of color saying, “Yes, I experienced the same thing” brought me to where I’m at now. When somebody, one of my friends was like, “Hey. I run a doula program. You would be great.” You know I’m out advocating for the community and birth work and this/that and the other, so I went to get trained under their doula program. Moreso, I liked the fact that it was community based. Even though the organization that it was under definitely neglects the fact that intersectionality in the community exists. Especially with people of color, my own experiences are very separate. We may all experience discrimination, however, they’re separate. They’re not the same. So she kind of tied that into our training to be community based doulas. To know that you’re not just serving those who have middle to high income and are heterosexual couples. There are single parents, there are those who are teenagers, those who have gone through trauma and sexual assault. It’s various levels to this that you have to work through and navigate through in the community and be aware of. There are people with different family dynamics, who have poly dynamics, or blended families, kindred type of families, guardians – the whole – it was mind blowing. So that even made me want to dive deeper into it, and this is where I am. Continuing to still learn and continuing to check my own biases. Trying to unlearn what I learned growing up because of the community I was around was not very open to the community I serve now. So, you know, once I escaped from that community and was actually into a community that I was taught “this and that” was not even true.. Learning that, I feel comfortable being myself because even at a time, I couldn’t express, “Hey, I’m part of the community that you’re talking trash about” you know? Pretty much my whole experience as birthing and almost losing my life and my son’s life is what pretty much brought me into the work that I do now. 

Emma: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for sharing that. And it’s heavy, and that’s just real. Your work literally saves lives. 

Mystique: Right.  

Emma: That’s, it’s critical. We’re really glad you’re out there. I’m so sorry you had to go through that, and that anybody has to go through that. But that’s why, some of why a lot of people get into it, for sure. 

Mystique: Yes, yes.

Emma: So, you definitely touched on this in all your answers, but to be really explicit, do you have a specific support philosophy that you kind of bring through your work?

Mystique: I’m always about supporting the person where they’re at. Working from where they are, it’s very person-centered. It’s also working, if they have trauma and have experienced trauma in the past. Kind of working with my services, making sure it’s trauma informed and is trauma supportive, as I like to call it. Because trauma cannot be.. It’s so… not black and white. And it’s a lot to navigate through. Regarding just my work, I just work where the person is and just go from there. Given that I’m very direct, but I’m loving. I always call it my “tough love.” I’m not gonna sugar coat it, my client’s know. I don’t sugar coat, I’m here to inform and educate, but also respect your choices as well. Because I don’t want somebody making a choice and they’re not informed or educated. I don’t push, I don’t say – just because I wouldn’t personally choose that, I’m not gonna say “you shouldn’t do that” or whatever, it’s their choice. So if they’re like, “I still want a c section, I know the risk. I know what’s possibly to happen, but I just want you there, should I need to have a c section – I’m all for it…” great. I’m not that type of birth worker that’s like, “No! you should–” I don’t do that. That’s… that- Cause I wouldn’t want anybody to do that to me! If I want to give birth at a river sitting or squatting near a tree, I want my birth worker to be like “Let’s do this. OK. However. You do know, these are the risks, and if you’re aware- ok, let’s do it, but these are the risks and let’s come up with a plan..” So kind of just meeting them where they are, not forcing my own personal preferences on them. Also just checking myself should I feel like I might be shifting toward that type of energy. Which, it happens. You know, I’m normal, I’m human, everybody’s human. So I say, “You know what, you’re right. Let’s formulate a plan. Let’s work with the choice that you want to make and go from there.” So that’s pretty much how I work. I’m very flexible, I’m there for the client, and their needs. Making sure they are informed and educated, though, with their choices. 

Emma: That’s awesome, yeah – and it’s important to acknowledge certain situations that make you question yourself for a second. That’s kind of all you need as a support person, taking a minute to be aware of what you’re thinking of, where your experience is at, and yeah, trying to be present with what’s actually in front of you. 

Mystique: Exactly. Exactly. 

Emma: Amazing, well, we’ve asked about your natal work, and now I want to know about your natal chart! What’s your sun sing, moon and rising?

Mystique: Okay! So I am an Aquarius sun, Taurus moon and Aries rising. And when people hear the Aries rising, they’re like “I get it. Because that’s where the fire is.” My aqua sun, I’m chillin’: I’m just trying to be a humanitarian and serve those in need and advocate and all this great stuff, and y’know, my Aries is that radical knock everything over, flip tables, yell “Yall are gonna hear me, you’re gonna listen to us” type of thing, and my Taurus moon is, I’m chillin. I’m relaxing, “Why are we making such a ruckus, why are we making so much noise? Can we just calm down?” So, luckily I have that nice little balance. (laughs). That’s my natal chart, I love my natal chart. 

Emma: I love it, I think it’s working.

Mystique: Right? It’s a balance! I need it! 

Emma: I’m a Libra, and I was gonna be like, “Seems really balanced!” but that’s also how I tend (laughs). Awesome, so what’s your favorite thing about being a queer perinatal worker or about working with queer and trans families, and queer and trans families of color?

Mystique: I love the fact that everybody is different. Everybody presents a different – it’s never a boring day, it’s never a boring time period at all. I also allow celebrating us, because we don’t get to do that a lot. And when we do, it kind of gets shut down, and some of us are like, “Well, maybe I did too much.” So I’m the type, again here’s my Aries rising, who’s like “No, we’re gonna celebrate, we’re gonna be loud because we’re here, we’re queer, get over it – like they said!” I just love the fact that we have different expressions, different identities, and we can just come together knowing that we are a community that faces through all this mess, through all the discrimination, through all the hate crimes, and the trageties that are happening to our communities, we can be there for– Ooh we are so strong– for each other, and supportive, even if we feel like, “I’m gonna give up, I can’t..” I will say my own support system, which is majority LGTBQ, I will send a text like, “I don’t know if I can do this, I’m throwing in this towel,” and instantly it’s like, “You better be so glad that we’re in a pandemic and I can’t come over there and shake you and say, ‘NOPE, we’re gonna dance it out, whatever, we’re gonna go for a walk.’” Just that supportive collective, to just be there and be strong and just be like a unified front. I really love how we bring that energy for each other and just in our communities as well. 

Emma: That’s awesome, gives me the warm fuzzies. I wish you could have your lil queer shaking friends like, “get it together!!”


Mystique: Yes!

Emma: At least we’ll do that digitally for now, we’re connected. Amazing. So, speaking of perinatal care in general, your own experience – what is something that you’d hope to improve for queer and trans birthing families and families of color? 

Mystique: I’m hoping to improve the awareness just being mindful that everything is not so binary. Intersectionality, or being intersectional, exists. In all of this. Knowing that this work is very intersectional, we are very diverse and being aware of checking those biases like I spoke about earlier, but also using inclusive language. Also understanding that using inclusive language does not dismiss or neglect anybody else that is or identifies as being binary, cisgendered or heterosexual. We’re not excluding you, you’re included! So, that’s kind of the tough, that’s a challenge that I’m being presented with. Explaining what being inclusive means and when you’re using inclusive language in this work. “I’m a woman, I identify as a mother or a mom” it’s not dismissing you, it’s including everybody. And to wrap it all up, I will say, inclusive language or say “those who not only identify as ‘mom’ and ‘female’ but also, we have to understand pronouns and identity, such as she/they, they/them, nonbinary bodies, transgender bodies, and breaking down that there’s transgender women, transgender men, transgender nonbinary people. Breaking that down, and understanding but also coming from a space of knowing that I can’t let my hot head get to me – my Aries rising get to me. Let’s take it down, let’s breathe through it cause this is an opportunity to inform and educate. So that is pretty much what I’m dealing with, making sure we’re using inclusive language and not only that, but we know, you know in certain spaces. That is the challenge. Slowly but surely, progress is being made. Of course there’s kick back, there’s rejection, it’s expected. But I know I’m doing my job of what I can do, my end, my part in all of this. Knowing I’m not alone and I’m not by myself in this. Yes, it’s a battle, but we are strong and we’re gonna keep it moving, we’re gonna keep it going because you guys will understand that this work is not so binary. It’s checking those heavy heteronormative agendas as well.

Emma: Amazing, I mean it’s such a deep seated debate in the birth world. 

Mystique: Yes it is. Woof.

Emma: Y’know, I’m not referring to every single person in the world who’s ever had a baby when I say “mom”!

Mystique: Exactly. 

Emma: Sure, we’re just acknowledging that “you’re a mom.” It takes time, and it’s good to be with other birth workers who are seeing it like that and being in that community. We gotta hang out with each other more.

Mystique: Right!

Emma: Well I’m curious if you have any pieces of advice for aspiring queer/trans birth workers, lactation counselors, herbalits, phD candidtaes, any of that. 

Mystique: I would say, I was guilty of that same y’know “What am I doing wrong? Why am I not being heard or being taken seriously?” just overthinking things. Don’t compare your journey to other birth workers or lactation counselors or whatever. Don’t compare your journey to them. This is your own journey. Through your own journey, you will discover that when you have … walking your own truth and navigating through that. You’re constantly navigating through that throughout this. See how, when you transform yourself and and start walking in your truth, you’ll start transforming the way you do work. Especially for your community, especially communities who are marginalized, neglected and dismissed. Elevating to the next level. Next levels come with even more stress, so kind of being aware of your own biases as well, because we tend to forget that we’re like, “ra ra ra, let’s be inclusive, make sure you respect me and my community” we all have our own biases. We don’t know everything – everybody doesn’t know everything. So it’s important to learn from each other, and learn from those who are in those represented communities that you’re not. For instance, I know nothing about those who are in the disability community, who are disabled. I don’t know and I haven’t lived that life, so I communicate with those –especially if they are queer and trans disabled people– I can’t speak on their experiences, so I want to know that, especially if I have a client who is in that situation, and they feel comfortable with me working with them. I also want to have that resource to bring in, as well. 

Also, know your worth. Just because you’re trained and you’re in training and you’re gaining experiences, it’s ok to know your worth, to price what you’re worth. It’s OK, you can get paid as a trained birth worker. I got paid as a trained birth worker. I was surprised that I would! They were like, “I’m not having you do all this work for free.” You’ll be surprised – a lot of people understand the hard work that comes with birth work. That comes with being in the community, being an actual community birth worker, they understand that it’s a fight. You’re fighting for that community, those people, those individuals. So, charge your worth. Don’t compare yourself. Definitely work on checking biases, charge your worth. And just take your time, learn as much as you can. But – and I’d stress this, because I always get fussed at – self-care is very important. That is a priority. And it’s sad if you have to schedule self-care, cause now I gotta schedule it, but it’s done. You have to do what you have to do to actually schedule self care because you can’t be an empty cup trying to fill other cups. It does not work. It will tip over, and nothing will be coming out of you but dust. So, self care is definitely, definitely important. Whatever that looks like that is healthy, in a way that that helps you cope with whatever stressers, heaviness, weighted energies are thrown your way. So self care is important in this work because if not, you will be burnt out. We can’t have burnt out birth workers cause we got too much work to do, so take care of yourself. Definitely. 

Emma: So true. We need you, we need you to stick around for a few years, longer than just a few years. 

Mystique: Yes, yes. 

Emma: Excellent survival guide for starting out in the perinatal field! Awesome, what upcoming projects – do you have anything that you’d like to cross-pollinate with the community or is there anything you’re trying to spread pollen on?

Mystique: Yes, so beginning next month, I’m doing a free virtual support group for black postpartum moms and parents, it will be definitely a variety of these postpartum groups. One focused on just parenting-wise, navigating through that. One focused on grief and loss, because that is also a thing as well. And one focusing on healing and recovery in general, should they terminate a pregnancy, — so there will be various support groups that will trickle on throughout the year, but the first one will be focused on Black postpartum parents, and that aspect and examining what it looks like. What healing and wellness looks like for Black postpartum parents. The next one will be starting next month, I will be offering two free to very-low-cost postpartum services to BIPOC bodies, just doesn’t matter what their situation is as far as postpartum is concerned, that service will be focused on their healing and recovery. But it will just be two, I’ll pick two every month and the free service will go to one who is either no-low income, and the very low-cost will be to those who are actually employed, making a specific amount. My focus is mainly helping to serve those who are in need, especially who can’t afford a lot of these postpartum services that are out. A lot of people have been financially affected by the pandemic. Luckily I was able to promote that, provide that to the community, so that will be starting next month.

Emma: That’s really amazing, and I’m looking forward to asking how we can support that in a moment, but before we wrap up, I’m curious if you have anything not perinatal about your life that you want to share?

Mystique: Well, I did have, I hit a parenting milestone moment that my five-year-old is losing his first tooth. I don’t know how to take it. I’m just like, “Oh my gosh, you are really gr..” and he was fine with it until he heard he could get money for the tooth, and now he’s working on trying to get the tooth out and I’m like, “Leave it alone” It’s kind of like a moment of “Wow, you are actually growing up. This is really happening. Wow.” and then my partner just stepping in and being that parenting figure for him, it’s amazing. We realized that, “You know that you’ve been around for over two years?” He’s’ like “Yeah!” Whoa! So, we celebrated that. We went to Baltimore to celebrate our anniversary, cause that was kind of the safest way to celebrate it. It was supposed to be Miami, but no- we decided to make it a little safer for us. But other than that, just the parenting moment of my child is, he’s growing up. He’s just so aware of things and he’s always into “what is mama doing?” If I’m studying, he wants to be there studying with me, so it’s a really “aha” moment. My child is growing up and he’s really interested in seeing what his mama is doing and if he sees me trying to do services or take care of one of my doula babies, he’s very helpful. He’s like, “Mom, I’m your assistant” I’m watching my kid grow up! It’s a beautiful moment to reflect that, wow, we went through what we went through and now we’re here type of moment. Parenting is hard! (laughs) it’s so hard. But it teaches me patience that I need for other things in life, so yeah.

Emma: That’s so amazing. It sounds like he’s turning out pretty good if he’s like, super into all the work you’re doing. That’s just an extension of the work, making examples for future generations. And five is such a big kid age. Awesome, well, I’m curious where people can find you and support your projects on the internet. Especially the low-cost post-pregnancy care that you’re offering. Where can we follow up with you?


Mystique: So, social media, Facebook The Black Birth Healer. You just type it in, I’ll pop up, you’ll see my face. Instagram is @BlackBirthHealer and my website is www.theblackbirthhealer.com So soon I’ll be posting about my projects on my website, but Instagram as well, and more details will come with that.

Emma: Amazing, thank you so much for being here today!

Mystique: Thank you for having me, this was awesome.