Tag: kink friendly

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interviews

Amber Matteson

Amber Matteson. She/her. Intimate Connections Doula Services.

Katie: Alright, well thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me. Let’s just start by telling us a little bit about yourself, about your practice. Where are you, what do you do?

Amber: So, I completed my birth doula training just over two years ago. I did it with DONA, but I did not certify with them. So, right after my training I jumped in and started working with Birthing Gently Maternal Health Program, which is at MGH and Brigham. They’re a volunteer doula service that pretty much offers service for anyone asking for it that otherwise probably wouldn’t have access. Usually they’re linked up by their OB or through Brigham & Women’s childbirth education classes that they offer. That’s kind of how I got my first few births under my belt, which was really cool. It was a really incredible experience to get to serve people from marginalized communities and get to serve people who otherwise, I didn’t even realize needed a doula. I worked with a 16 year old client who didn’t have any support or any family and I was the only one there. It was an incredible experience, obviously, and I think that just drew me more into the work than I already was. I realized how much I really needed to do this. And then, about a year ago, I launched my own website and did my own thing, which was scary and I did it. My website is still not done, but it’s a work in progress. So I am now working on starting consulting for other birth workers who are just looking to be more inclusive, whether or not that’s through their marketing, their branding, or they just want help being more inclusive with the language terms on their website, or if they’re looking specifically to start marketing to the LGBTQ community – if they want help with it.

Katie: Awesome, and where in the world geographically are you, where do you serve? 

Amber: I am just south of Boston, so I serve pretty much the entire Boston area anywhere. I also frequent Women and Infants in Rhode Island cause it’s only like 45 minutes from me, so. But now I can’t go there, cause of covid…

Katie: Yeah!

Amber: Can’t cross state lines right now.. But normally, I would go there. 

Katie: What are you queering right now?

Amber: Oh god, I– everything??? Technically?? I’m feel like my existence is a bunch of queer. In all seriousness, to call out all of my labels – I am queer, I identify as fat, I identify as femme, I am polyamorous, I am kinky. Pretty much everything about me is pretty queer (laughs). It’s pretty different and so, I bring queer in my every day life. In terms of my birth work, the process is ever-evolving of queering my business. I think it’s so important to both market yourself to families who just want to be inclusive and want to work with somebody who is queer or to queer families, cause I want queer families to feel safe while they’re giving birth or in the birth process in any kind of way and to feel safe with me. 

Katie: Absolutely. And what inspired you to do the work that you do? What initially got you into birth work?

Amber: Man… so, the story goes: that I was a doula at nine years old. 

Katie: YESS.

Amber: I attended my brother’s birth, when he was born. Him and I have a nine year age gap and we’re the closest of close. But I attended my mom’s birth and it was beautiful, wonderful, and the nurses that day were just like – is she gonna be a nurse when she grows up, because has she ever done this before? I had my mom walking the halls and she had preeclampsia so she was pretty much bed bound when she was in active labor because she was so swollen and she had blew up like a balloon. I freaking love birth work and that’s kind of where it started, was when I was nine. I went to school and thought I wanted to be a teacher, and in my undergrad had finished school and then kind of floated around in the job world and my friend out of nowhere was like, “Oh yeah, I think I’m gonna become a doula!” and my friend started talking to me about it I was like, “This is really cool..” not four months later I was doing a training and starting my own business, cause I was like, “Oh, that makes a lot of sense. That’s probably where I should go and that’s how I ended up here.”

Katie: Incredible, incredible. I want more baby queer doula children running around. 

Amber: Right? 

Katie: Wowowow, the dream. I am changing everything that I could ever envision if I were to ever give birth, wow- amazing. 

Amber: Right? Just wanna give birth to so many little queerlings. Little queer doulas everywhere. 

Katie: Little queerlings around – ohhh!!

Amber: Yeah, so I was a nine year old little munchkin running around the hospital helping people. 

Katie: So good. And how would you describe your support philosophy? 

Amber: I think the baseline that all births, bodies and choices around birth are completely valid. That’s kind of the baseline – no matter how somebody chooses to identify, or identifies and chooses to give birth is completely valid and I’m there to support their choices. But… I use trauma-informed care in my support, my work is Health at Every Size centered. I’ve done a ton of work around HAES and kind of intuitive eating and those things and that’s so important to my work. As a queer fat femme, I want other fat femmes to feel good giving birth in their bodies and know that their bodies are not bad cause they’re big. So, that’s really important to me and obviously — not obvious, but I feel like it should be — that all of my care is evidence-based. It’s kind of cheesy but this is how I named my business, my business name is Intimate Connections Doula Services and I think that the connection between a doula and a birthing person is just so incredible and so so important and it’s important that we build off of those connections too. That’s kind of where I ended up naming my business, was around my own philosophy of that care and that level of connection that you have to have with the person that you’re working with. 

Katie: Absolutely. And, so… I asked you about your natal work, and so I also need to know about your natal chart. What’s your sun/moon/rising?

Amber: So, my sun is in Capricorn. My moon is Saggitarious and my rising is Scorpio. 

Katie: I’m also a Capricorn sun, so – always excited to find another one. 

Amber: More Capricorns. I’m an almost New Year’s Eve baby, December 30th. I’ve been told that my business self is the Capricorn cause I’m very type-a when I’m at work but everything else in my life is not so type-a. Like, my Sagittarius is all my feelings. My Scorpio is my mama bear side, cause I’m a fierce protector of my family. It’s funny, my friends all call me the mama bear and they’re not wrong. They’re really not. So that’s a little bit about me (laughs). They’re all very accurate, they all fit me very well. 

Katie: I also feel like so much of birth work sits in that intersection of like “spreadsheets and feelings.”

Amber: Spreadsheets and feelings. Like, how many feelings can I have about my spreadsheets?

Katie: Limit does not exist. 

Amber: Does not exist (laughs)

Katie: What would you say your favorite thing is about being a queer support person or working with LGBTQ+ families?

Amber: My heart. That’s my favorite thing. 

Katie: The feelings! Moreso than the spreadsheets..

Amber: Feelings is the big things. Working with queer famlies in particular just warms my heart to have my community feel supported and if someone’s coming to me and is birthing with me, as in: One, it’s such an honor to be there for those moments. And it creates this beautiful community. The more that we grow within our own queer community, it’s even more beautiful and if we’re having this tiny queerling baby: hey, welcome! Welcome to this big beautiful community that we created for you. I think that that’s.. The queer community for me is family. I don’t have kind of blood family, I guess. I have a lot of baggage with family, and that is my family. So for me, queer communtiy for me is that. It’s family. Watching your family literally grow is incredible. 

Katie: I’m just so into the idea of these little queerlings being born into this queer family and surround… ugh. Yes. 

Amber: Surrounded by good queer energy. It doesn’t get better!!

Katie: Doesn’t get better. And if you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for queer and trans families, what would it be? 

Amber: I want to make it all better… but if it was one thing it would be for providers that they’re working for that are not educated or not trained that at the very least to treat the family with respect. I think it’s faded away in OB care and hospital care that there’s a person in front of you. Like, it’s not just a person in a room taking up a bed. It’s this person and this family and these people and they deserve to be respected and they deserve your respect at baseline. Even if you’re not trained, even if you’re not educated. You don’t understand, and if you don’t understand someone’s identity, at least respect. At least show up to have the conversation and be willing to be educated. Because, I think that would make a huge difference. That alone, just showing up to say “OK, I’ll listen” is enormous. I think that would make a huge shift and change within OB care. 

Katie: Yeah, for sure. There’s so much about the process of obstetric care that is so objectifying. 

Amber: Yeah! Absolutely. And I just feel like there’s so much that I would change but I feel like that one thing. If we could get every single provider who comes in contact with this family to just respect them. That would be enough – for a little while. 

Katie: Wouldn’t get you everything, but if you had to start. 

Amber: Right. If you had to start somewhere, with one thing, that’s what it would be. 

Katie: And what’s a piece of advice that you have for new or aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Amber: One, trust yourself. Trust yourself getting into this work is important and good, and if you want to do this you should. Even if it feels like no one out in the universe is listening and you have like three followers on instagram – keep going. Keep going, cause you will find your community and you will find your birth partners. It doesn’t matter where you are. There’s gonna be another queer. There is, I promise you. Just keep looking, and I think that would be the thing. From trusting yourself to get into this work, and then find your community. And find your people. This work is super hard and can be really draining. It’s important to have people you can lean on who can really understand it. Unless you’re part of birth work, I don’t think you can fully “get it”… It’s funny, cause I have a friend of many, many years who is also a doula and sometimes we’ll just text each other randomly, out of the blue – we’re not friends that talk to very often. But like, we’ll text each other randomly, out of the blue to be like “I NEED to tell you about this THING. This birthy thing that no one else is gonna get cause it’s a random birthy thing.” So I think it’s just so important to have those connections with people that are gonna understand you, and are gonna understand the viewpoint that you’re coming at it from, too. 

Katie: There’s the friends you can text weird stuff to, and then there’s the friends you can text weird placenta stuff to. And those are somehow, different…

Amber: Those are somehow, selectively different. Like, you can tell me all about your beautiful birth experience, but who can you send a picture of the placenta to?

Katie: That’s the crew you need. 

Amber: Right! Thats… that’s the crew you need. I have to say sorry, my cat is screaming in the background. I think he saw a bird? I don’t know. I have four of them. 

Katie: What are their names?

Amber: So, we have Finn who is the oldest, who usually just goes by Mr. Man, because he is Sir Proper Paws of the house. He is also the oldest, the grumpiest and the most arthritic. (laughs) We have Griffin who’s next in line, who is just a fat orange couch potato. He is 25 pounds of fluff. Then we have Gizmo, who is my middle rescue, and he … we rescued him from the MSPCA and he loves to be outside on a leash, but he doesn’t like to go outside alone. And then we have our baby, who is three, and that is Mr. Noodle, who is .. his real name is Oscar, but we call him Mr. Noodle, because he walks around like a noodle. We think he had some sort of brain injury as a kitten, and he has a lazy eye and he is a little wonky. He gets the zoomies a lot. He is the sweetest thing. I think he’s about somewhere… So those are my four! 

Katie: Love it. So good. Are there other not-birth related things about you or your life that you want to share?

Amber: Sure, well, my first fun fact is always that I have four cats and that my house is a zoo. My partner and I each had two when we moved in together and that’s how we ended up with all four, cause of course no one was leaving our nest. 

Katie: Absolutely not, no.

Amber: But… other good fun facts about me. I love to dance. Pre-covid, you could find me pretty much every single Tuesday at Bella Luna – they used to have a two-step and line dancing night there in JP and that was my favorite thing on the planet. It was just like a whole bunch of queers dancing and it was beautiful. I’ve professionally danced pretty much all of my life up until recently, and now I’m just like… I should do this for fun! I think dance is like a huge thing. I am recently engaged.

Katie: Oooh! Congratulations! 

Amber: Thank you. Very excited! We were going to get married, but then covid happened, and so we might have a backyard wedding someday. (laughs)

Katie: Queering the backyard wedding, another thing to add to your list. 

Amber: Queering the backyard wedding. And turning it into a covid-safe celebration (laughs). I guess!

Katie: And finally, where can people find you in internet land?

Amber: Yeah! I am on Facebook, Instagram or my own website and you can find me under Intimate Connections Doula Services on all of those! 

Katie: Awesome. Thank you so much – it was so lovely chatting with you.

Amber: Thank you so much! 

Categories
interviews

Alex Papale

Alex Papale, they/them, @thesexpositivePT and Flourish Physical Therapy. alex.papalePT@gmail.com

Emma: Alright, well, I am here with Alex Papale, and I am excited to hear a little more about you and your practice. If you want to start by saying where you are, and the kind of clients you see and the kind of work you do in the world, that would be awesome.

Alex: I am in Boston, Massachusetts and I am a pelvic floor and orthopedic physical therapist. I’ve been doing PT for two years, have been in Boston for eight. That’s just been my home base at this point. Predominantly working with, also based on preference and just happenstance of working with largely younger folks, which is really cool. A lot of college-aged people, lots of queer and trans folks, which is also really exciting because that’s my favorite group of people to work with if I had to choose. I work with everybody, but generally that’s the case. 

Emma: You can have a preference!

Alex: Yeah, I’m not discriminatory, obviously, of whoever – I’ll see anybody. But it’s obviously exciting with queer/trans folks coming in. Love working specifically also with kink folks – love that. Because I’m also a sex educator, I worked at a local sex shop for two years teaching workshops and I have taught workshops outside of there on pretty much anything from safer sex to kink-specific things, technique kind of stuff, sex across any age – sex for older folks or pregnant folks. Pretty much anything, love talking about it. So those things really overlap a lot. I’m not sure if it’s because of those things but also a lot of my patient demographics, people that I treat the most tend to have pain with sex, pelvic pain mostly. 

Emma: It’s so good to know who you can be honest with – like, which providers, you can be like, “This is me, this is my life, and also.. I need pelvic floor physical therapy, now what?” 

Alex: Yeah, it’s huge. 

Emma: Awesome. So glad we get to live in the same place. What are you queering right now?

Alex: Ugh, like I mean.. What are you not? Existing as a queer person these days… hopefully everything. I think just healthcare, I would like to say. Also sex ed, always. I think largely making it known that queer inclusive -not even just queer inclusive — and queer competnant healthcare is a necessaiyy and absolutely should already exist. I love what I’m doing, but I wish what I was doing specifically was not really a thing, because it should just be normal and expected. Which is unfortunately not the case. Same kind of thing with sex ed, I do a fair amount of sex ed for providers which is also really fun and also something I wish I wasn’t doing because it should just be included. Making sure that is always through a queer lens, because that is such a big lack in any sex ed. If people get any sex ed, it’s usually really heteronormative and cis-normative. 

Emma: Awesome, I mean, we need it – I’m all for it. I’m curious to hear a little more about what got you started in the first place. How does one decide to become a sex educator/pelvic floor specialist?

Alex: Great questions. I decided to do pelvic PT.. I was in PT school and not loving anything else – ortho’s cool, I don’t know, I didn’t really find anything I love. I have a distinct memory of working in a group during PT school. It was a research group of some sort, and I would always be like, “This is how this thing affects these marginalized groups, this is how this impacts trans people, or whatever it is, or LGBTQ people.” Someone else in the group made a comment like, “We all know what Alex is gonna do with their degree!” I was like, “What? Oh my god.. Ok, yes.” That’s the advocacy part of it. The pelvic side of that came in because I have chronic pelvic floor dysfunction and I have had it since my teens, really. I just never knew that that’s what was happening. It was literally me, in PT school, on a pelvic floor clinical rotation, before I realized like – it’s pelvic floor stuff and not the chronic UTI’s I thought was happening, or was telling myself. If it took me being in PT school, in a pelvic rotation to get the healthcare that I needed, how is anybody else supposed to access this? How are queer and trans people supposed to be able to access this particularly? So that became a big point of that. I was teaching a course for healthcare providers about trans inclusive healthcare and the sex shop I used to work at ended up tabling at it. I just ended up talking to them  – oh also sex ed is something I love to talk about, and they said, “Well, we’re hiring” so I picked that up and deeply fell in love with it. It was really cool to get a semi-formal (wasn’t really formal)… a very comprehensive sex ed training at this job along with having the experience of teaching workshops and learning a lot and having these resources available. 

Emma: That’s awesome, I mean I love a good personal draw story. That’s really when you can, I think, make the most impact with other people – when you personally are going through something they are, or that’s how they seek you out and find you as a provider. But it’s kind of funny that you ended up in PT school, not really thinking about it until deep into the program. That’s very interesting. 

Alex: I do think it’s wild that literally someone else had to be like “Well, we know what you’re doing,” and I was like, “What am I doing? Tell me please!”

Emma: “This is just how I live my life, iunno”

Alex: This is just what I get mad about! Obviously, I need to get paid to get mad about it. 

Emma: Yeah – thats right. Get paid! I love it. Well, you have touched on this, in terms of knowing about comprehensive sex education, and being queer/trans – not just inclusive, or competent –but focused, and in it yourself. Do you have a specific support philosophy that you bring to your work with clients?

Alex: I think that would just look like meeting people really where they’re at. I think that especailyl for queer and trans folks, especially with pelvic floor dysfunction there’s just so much shame that comes with that. Which is super relatable – and a lot of that can be… there are just so many facets of experiences and identity that can bring that up. Whether it’s trauma, whether it’s internalized homophobia or transphobia. It’s having a hard time being able to say out loud that you have this sort of dysfunction that largely affects your sex life, or your ability to experience pleasure which is already really hard to talk about. A lot of it is just hearing people and validating their experiences and just meeting people where they’re at. Whatever their goals are – working towards that and just validating them. Doing my best not to put my goals on somebody. If they just really want to be able to do this thing, then that’s going to be our functional goal and not, like, the kind of insurance pushed “oh they need to be able to insert a speculum” or whatever it is. Which you might have to do for insurance purposes, but it’s really important to need to …. Any of the little nuanced things that are important to my patients are things that I really try to center. 

Emma: Interesting. Did you say that being able to use a speculum is required by insurance? What was that?

Alex: Oh, yeah! That insurance – oh my god – so insurance will not cover “pain with sex” for folks that don’t have penises and that’s just generally true. So we tend to have to bill insurance with like, my favorite code that I use is just like “other muscle spasm” or “general pelvic pain” but it has to be like “functional goals” if insurance requires those, like, “patient will be able to insert a speculum.”

Emma: Wow. That’s fascinating to think about that side of it. 

Alex: It’s kind of wild – exactly – that’s obviously not most patient’s goals. Maybe it is for some people, but that’s not why they’re coming to PT. But that’s usually how things have to get billed, unfortunately. 

Emma: Yeah – wow, thanks for sharing that. Fascinating. Well – you told us a little bit about your pelvic floor work, your sex educator work… now I want to know about your natal chart. What’s your sun, moon, rising?

Alex: It’s a trip. Ok. So, I am a Virgo sun, an Aries moon and Aries rising. Like, yikes…. but..

Emma: Aries, alright, alright…

Alex: Also, starting to learn about houses – my Aries rising is in my first house, I think, so that’s also just even more Aries and, yeah… can be kind of intense. I think other aspects of my char that make that a little bit more palatable (well maybe not, this is arguable) but that my venus is in scorpio and my mars is in Cancer, which I think is very like the Virgo and the Cancer are the caretaker vibes. I feel fiercely protective of my patients and my work and the communities that I work with and I think that’s the Scorpio/Aries.. Also Virgo, honestly.. And Cancer….. I think my chart is honestly very accurate for myself and also, a little bit much. 

Emma: It’s cute. We can be true to ourselves and still be a little bit much. But it’s really sweet to hear the interpretation or how it comes into your work, even. 

Alex: It’s fun. A lot of just, I feel like the Virgo and the Aries to me is just a lot of a high quantity of somewhat finished to do lists, but it works out. 

Emma: I think a lot of people can probably relate to that – that’s awesome. Alright, well, I’d love to know if you have a favorite thing about being a queer sex educator and pelvic health professional and working with queer/trans people. I mean you’ve touched on a little bit, but if you have a specific thing.

Alex: I think my favorite things are the sense of relief from patients that I get sometimes. Just “ugh, you get it” or “ugh, it feels so nice” and whether or not this has been verbalized or just getting the sense of it – the comfort that comes with that. Just getting to know patients in general, building a relationship with them. Feeling like they’re like, “Oh, I can actually talk about these things and I can bring up these nuances of my sex life or my kink life or if folks mention they have multiple partners and that’s something that you don’t necessarily get to share with a healthcare provider. But it can be really important, and it just feels nice when patients feel comfortable enough to start to say those things. To earn that level of trust and comfort is really huge for me, and also for anybody – but particularly for queer and trans folks to trust a healthcare provider. It’s an honor, and it’s also heavy cause it’s like, I’m frequently told I’m one of the few for folks, oftentimes. Which is horrible and also relatable. 

Emma: Definitely. 

Alex: Honestly one of the things that I really, really love a lot. Especially with how much time I get to spend with my patients. 

Emma: Especially doing pelvic floor PT – it’s not like 5 minute in and out kind of work. Thanks for sharing that. That’s really sweet. So, in terms of pregnancy care, I know you mentioned that you would see pregnant clients and thinking of sex education in pregnancy, too. Is there something that you hope to improve about the experience of the perinatal period – postpartum, pregnancy, whatever, for queer and trans patients. 

Alex: Oh my god. Yes. Something in particular would be the hope that pelvic floor PT in general can be affirming and accessible for pregnant folks or their families. In any span of the pregnancy timeline – pre-pregnancy, during pregnancy, post pregnancy. Any of those times, I think, can be really valuable to have access to a pelvic PT even if it’s just for one session of being able to come in and learn a bit more about your body, or learn about your pelvic floor in general, or get a sense of what your pelvic floor is doing before you get pregnant or right in the beginning or whatever it looks like. To be able to have that baseline for when someone is going through a pregnancy, if things come up – low back pain starts up, if there’s pelvic floor pain or pretty much anything. Questions about how to have sex, all of those kinds of things. I would love for that to just be more available and I think a lot of folks that I work, with especially pregnant folks or postpartum folks, are things like “Oh, I wish I knew about you a year ago or five years ago. That this was even an option or that I could have told my friends or my whoever.” I’m always wishing this was more accessible. I wish people were told by other providers that we exist and that we can also exist in your corner for your care, especially during this really life changing time. 

Emma: Absolutely, I totally understand wanting to have that earlier touchpoint before things have to get really bad. Ideally. But yeah, that’s a great thing to work toward. Do you have a nugget of advice for any aspiring queer and trans pelvic floor PTs, sex educators out there?

Alex: I think my advice would be (for the pelvic PT side of it). If you ever find a PT that does the things that you want to do or has an approach that you want to create / make your own, in your own way or whatever it is. Basically, reach out to them. I think that being a student or being an aspiring PT, it can be really intimidating to see the people who “are doing it,” and feel like there’s a huge gap – which is because of our education system and healthcare system of creating this hierarchy. We’re somehow inaccessible. Especially for queer and trans folks, if you find someone who’s doing what you want to do – please reach out to them, myself included. If any of this resonates – I LOVE to talk to people who are thinking about or are interested in it. I can’t speak for everybody, but generally I think we’ve all been students and felt like no one is doing what we’re doing, especially queer and trans providers. I don’t want to be one of the few, I want to be one of the many. Trying to get other people there, I think. If you find anybody you resonate with, please reach out to them. In the sex ed side of things, I think something that’s really helpful for me is that (and same thing with PT) you’ll never know everything. At all. And you’re gonna know some things and once you get comfortable with what you know, push it more. And there will always be people who know something different than you and know something more than you, or have seen and experienced different things. Especially in sex ed, just cause someone has a degree doesn’t make them more knowledgeable than people …. Also because the sex ed world is so un… like anyone can call themselves a sex educator. Just be careful of that – be aware of that. Not to say that people who call themselves a sex educator and don’t have credentials (which is also an issue – the fact that people think you need credentials about sex). Just be aware of where you’re getting your information from, what you’re reading. Making sure you’re getting the viewpoints of marginalized folks, especially in sex ed. Cause sex ed is already hard to access for everybody. On top of that… just make sure you’re not getting all your information from a cis het white man please. Please. Which is hard to do sometimes in sex ed, which is frustrating. Find the educators who are not any of those things. 

Emma: Awe, I love that. That’s great advice. We’re big on… this keeps coming up with all the folks we’re chatting with – that, there’s many pathways to doing this work, you don’t have to have all of the exact credentials all the time if you are in these communities. 

Alex: Yeah. Do not, and especially for queer and trans folks, do not gaslight yourself about what you know. And your experiences. And your value in either world of healthcare, of PT, of sex ed. Just try. It’s hard, and I do it all the time, but try not to (laughs). Which is like, impossible, but… worth saying. 

Emma: Totally worth saying! And that’s real. Awesome, well are there any projects you have going on or things you wanna drop seeds, spread pollen on that we can put out there for you?

Alex: I’m working on, since I have more time available, working on trying to not gaslight myself and my worth and just working on my website and things like that. Just having a platform kind of. I’m always looking for people to collaborate on any realm of workshop. I love teaching. Any realm of workshop of anything I’ve said – anything that might be of value or interest. I love to do it. Love collaborating very much, so if anybody’s trying to do that. Just creating networks. I have a running list of anybody that reaches out that’s like “Hey, I’m queer or trans or kink-friendly or xyz and I resonate with what you’re doing.” I want to have referrals for people, so I’m always working on that. If anybody wants to let me know who you are, please do that. 

Emma: That’s awesome. Yeah. More overlap in any of those ways is welcome. 

Alex: Please. Please reach out, love it!

Emma: Beautiful, well is there anything not sex-ed related or not pelvic floor related about your life that you wanna share? 


Alex: Ooh, I’m sitting in my room right now and I’m looking at the amount of plants that I have. I’m one of those queers (laughs), I am a plant queer. So that’s a fun. You can see my palm. 

Emma: Plant parent, that’s awesome. 

Alex: Also a snake parent as of this quarantine


Emma: Fun! Oh new quarantine snake!

Alex: Yeah, I have a 4 foot quarantine snake named honey

Emma: Oh my god, that’s amazing! What kind of snake?

Alex: She’s a corn snake, love of my life, like – it’s great. I call her my primary partner (laughs).

Emma: That’s so sweet! Aw (laughs).

Alex: Truly. I’m like, “Oh, is this what this feels like? To love another being more than yourself?”

Emma: Ohhhh, that’s hilarious. I’m so glad you said that.

Alex: So I guess those are fun things to know! You can’t have a conversation with me and have me not be like, “and my snake!”

Emma: Well, I get it now. That’s amazing. Well where can people connect with you if someone is an aspiring trans PT or looking for pelvic floor stuff in the Boston area or even tele-health. Where do people find you?

Alex: I have a not-super-active instagram page, but it does exist! And I am on it. I check it, but I’m not great at telling myself I can take up space on social media….. Unpack that at another point. It’s @thesexpositivePT if you’re just trying to keep up with general things. Flourish Physical Therapy is where I work, so I am on Google there. I have an email address, if that’s helpful. I can send that to you…

Emma: I could plug that in.. yeah, we could do email (laughs) (It’s alex.papalePT@gmail.com)

Alex: Yeah! And please anyone literally feel free to just email me anytime. I do check it somewhat regularly. Please feel free to. I’m not the quickest email replier, but I will eventually and, yeah.

Emma: Thank you so much, Alex for hanging out today and talking about yourself. I really enjoyed it, thoroughly. So (laughs)

Alex: Thanks for the invite, thanks for having me.

Emma: No problem. Take care!

Categories
interviews

Emma O’Brien

Emma O’Brien, she/her, Birthkeeper Herbalism and Lavandoula

Katie: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and a little bit about your practice?

Emma: Sure Katie thanks, my name’s Emma, I use she/her pronouns and I am a professional birth attendant. Snd I do full-spectrum work, so I attend abortions, miscarriage, stillbirth, birth postpartum, lots of stuff. And I’m also a clinical herbalist, so I help people with plants.

Katie: And what are you queering right now?

Emma: Love it. I am queering herbal natal education. So, I have a project right now called Birthkeeper Herbalism that I am putting together sort of class topics on different fertility situations from conceiving to postpartum and doing it in such a way that doesn’t gender plants and people! Which is hard to find in herbal education. There’s a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work and a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work, but in our area, there’s not a lot of overlap. Yeah, so, that’s what I’m queering right now.

Katie: Yeah! And what inspired you to do the work that you’re doing right now?

Emma: It’s a good question, I feel like I was always kinda drawn to support work in one way or another. When I was even in high school, I worked at an organization that did domestic violence advocacy and would sometimes do on call hospital advocacy shifts if folks went to the emergency room after an assault, so that is extremely similar to a birth doula role or an abortion support person. You know, you meet someone in this medical setting that can potentially be uncomfortable or traumatic in this very specific day of their life. So, that was sort of the beginning of the path. And when I met someone who worked as a birth doula, I was like, “that makes sense! I’m gonna look into that.”

Katie: Yeah, and what’s your support philosophy?

Emma: Usually I tell people that their philosophy becomes by philosophy. I really like to support people in their decision making processes. I’m a big information sharer. So when, I mean really like the informed part of informed consent. I really like to nonjudgmentally support whatever your decisions are as long as individuals feel like they have what they need to make that decisions. Whether its an emotional decision or a really fact based research decision. I’m there for it all.

Katie: So I’ve asked you about your natal work, but I’m also curious about your natal chart? Whats your sun moon rising?

Emma: I’m a libra, libra sun, October 4, and a saggitarius moon and gemini rising

Katie: Alright alright I’m a libra rising so I feel like that’s why we’re friends. What’s your favorite thing about being a wueer support person or about working with lgbtq+ families?

Emma: Yes. Just the layer of honesty, I feel like, that’s baseline there, y’know, just the comfortability you have talking to other queer people about these things. So you can say something and not be worried that you’re not gonna be received well. And for many folks, at least in our area, there’s not a ton of queer childbirth prep options or parent groups that are specifically queer and all that. So sometimes being that one queer person touchpoint in someone’s fertility, pregnancy and postpartum is yknow, really meaningful! There are a lot of parents desperate for that, so.

Katie: Especially I think going into some of these very medicalized settings where there’s like so much expectation of what your family looks like or how you talk about yourself to have somebody who you at least know is – who you know at least SEES you in that way can be so valuable to families.

Emma: Totally, I love it.

Katie: Yeah. If you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for queer and trans families, what would it be?

Emma: Ideally, my dream is to connect more queer families with queer and trans birth workers of all types. So, there’s folks who support people through their fertility process, there’s people who are antenatal birth workers who can help you at home if you’re high risk pregnant, y’know, postpartum support. All of that. I just think there are lots of queer people doing all this work out there and I don’t think parents always know where to find them. So, yeah, that’s it!

Katie: What’s one piece of advice you have for new and aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Emma: Well, first of all, thank you, you’re amazing, you’re needed, please stick around, and also don’t go it alone. Yknow, when I first trained as a birth doula in 2010 I was definitely the only queer person at that training. And I wasn’t really sure if I could hang with the whole birth scene in general, so having y’know located a couple other queer or “pro choice” birth workers in the early days would have been really amazing. Took a little while to build that community, so yeah, just don’t go it alone.

Katie: I can certainly attest to what It meant for me as an aspiring birth worker to be able to have you in my community and to have somebody I knew who was really willing to share information and support

Emma: Yeah, no gatekeeping!! Birth is for everybody

Katie: Yes, and finally, what’s something that’s not natal or pregnancy/birth related about you and your life that you wanna share with folks?

Emma: I’ve been thinking about this a lot, cause obviously it’s 2020 and we’re home, but my partner and I are pretty big like urban homesteader type people. So, we literally in the quarantine have tanned leather and canned pickles and I make medicine – obviously as an herbalist, getting a lot of plants and mushrooms from the world and making medicines for people. Um, what else – trying to think. It’s so funny, like, “get yourself a lesbian for the quarantine” or whatever – I’m like, yeah, my partner’s sharpening knives on rocks and it’s very practical. So, yeah!

Katie: Awesome, is there anything else about you or your work that you want to share?

Emma: People can find more about us at lgbtqbirth.com, my project with herbalism and natal topics is birthkeeper-herbalism.com and my actual birth support practice website is lavandoula.com 

Katie: Alright, thank you so much!

Katie interviews emma

Katie: Can you tell us a little bit about who you are and a little bit about your practice?

Emma: Sure Katie thanks, my name’s Emma, I use she/her pronouns and I am a professional birth attendant. Snd I do full-spectrum work, so I attend abortions, miscarriage, stillbirth, birth postpartum, lots of stuff. And I’m also a clinical herbalist, so I help people with plants.

Katie: And what are you queering right now?

Emma: Love it. I am queering herbal natal education. So, I have a project right now called Birthkeeper Herbalism that I am putting together sort of class topics on different fertility situations from conceiving to postpartum and doing it in such a way that doesn’t gender plants and people! Which is hard to find in herbal education. There’s a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work and a lot of amazing queer herbalists doing work, but in our area, there’s not a lot of overlap. Yeah, so, that’s what I’m queering right now.

Katie: Yeah! And what inspired you to do the work that you’re doing right now?

Emma: It’s a good question, I feel like I was always kinda drawn to support work in one way or another. When I was even in high school, I worked at an organization that did domestic violence advocacy and would sometimes do on call hospital advocacy shifts if folks went to the emergency room after an assault, so that is extremely similar to a birth doula role or an abortion support person. You know, you meet someone in this medical setting that can potentially be uncomfortable or traumatic in this very specific day of their life. So, that was sort of the beginning of the path. And when I met someone who worked as a birth doula, I was like, “that makes sense! I’m gonna look into that.”

Katie: Yeah, and what’s your support philosophy?

Emma: Usually I tell people that their philosophy becomes by philosophy. I really like to support people in their decision making processes. I’m a big information sharer. So when, I mean really like the informed part of informed consent. I really like to nonjudgmentally support whatever your decisions are as long as individuals feel like they have what they need to make that decisions. Whether its an emotional decision or a really fact based research decision. I’m there for it all.

Katie: So I’ve asked you about your natal work, but I’m also curious about your natal chart? Whats your sun moon rising?

Emma: I’m a libra, libra sun, October 4, and a saggitarius moon and gemini rising

Katie: Alright alright I’m a libra rising so I feel like that’s why we’re friends. What’s your favorite thing about being a wueer support person or about working with lgbtq+ families?

Emma: Yes. Just the layer of honesty, I feel like, that’s baseline there, y’know, just the comfortability you have talking to other queer people about these things. So you can say something and not be worried that you’re not gonna be received well. And for many folks, at least in our area, there’s not a ton of queer childbirth prep options or parent groups that are specifically queer and all that. So sometimes being that one queer person touchpoint in someone’s fertility, pregnancy and postpartum is yknow, really meaningful! There are a lot of parents desperate for that, so.

Katie: Especially I think going into some of these very medicalized settings where there’s like so much expectation of what your family looks like or how you talk about yourself to have somebody who you at least know is – who you know at least SEES you in that way can be so valuable to families.

Emma: Totally, I love it.

Katie: Yeah. If you could improve one thing about the experience of pregnancy and birth for queer and trans families, what would it be?

Emma: Ideally, my dream is to connect more queer families with queer and trans birth workers of all types. So, there’s folks who support people through their fertility process, there’s people who are antenatal birth workers who can help you at home if you’re high risk pregnant, y’know, postpartum support. All of that. I just think there are lots of queer people doing all this work out there and I don’t think parents always know where to find them. So, yeah, that’s it!

Katie: What’s one piece of advice you have for new and aspiring queer and trans birth workers?

Emma: Well, first of all, thank you, you’re amazing, you’re needed, please stick around, and also don’t go it alone. Yknow, when I first trained as a birth doula in 2010 I was definitely the only queer person at that training. And I wasn’t really sure if I could hang with the whole birth scene in general, so having y’know located a couple other queer or “pro choice” birth workers in the early days would have been really amazing. Took a little while to build that community, so yeah, just don’t go it alone.

Katie: I can certainly attest to what It meant for me as an aspiring birth worker to be able to have you in my community and to have somebody I knew who was really willing to share information and support

Emma: Yeah, no gatekeeping!! Birth is for everybody

Katie: Yes, and finally, what’s something that’s not natal or pregnancy/birth related about you and your life that you wanna share with folks?

Emma: I’ve been thinking about this a lot, cause obviously it’s 2020 and we’re home, but my partner and I are pretty big like urban homesteader type people. So, we literally in the quarantine have tanned leather and canned pickles and I make medicine – obviously as an herbalist, getting a lot of plants and mushrooms from the world and making medicines for people. Um, what else – trying to think. It’s so funny, like, “get yourself a lesbian for the quarantine” or whatever – I’m like, yeah, my partner’s sharpening knives on rocks and it’s very practical. So, yeah!

Katie: Awesome, is there anything else about you or your work that you want to share?

Emma: People can find more about us at lgbtqbirth.com, my project with herbalism and natal topics is birthkeeper-herbalism.com and my actual birth support practice website is lavandoula.com 

Katie: Alright, thank you so much!

Emma: Thanks Katie!

Categories
interviews

Rachel Hess

Rachel Hess, she/her/hers, Rachel’s website and Facebook.

Katie: Alright!

Emma: Hello everyone, thanks for joining us, Rachel Hess. We’re really excited to hear more about you and your practice. So, why don’t we start there? Tell us a little but about you and the work that you do in the world/

Rachel: Yay! So, I am Rachel Hess, I use she her and hers pronouns, and I’m a postpartum doula and also a trainer in Jamaica Plain/the greater Boston area/now the world, virtually. I have two kids who are “old”, 9 and 6 and a half, if you can believe that. So I’m a postpartum doula so typically I used to go into people’s homes and help them with their little babies and from anywhere from sometimes I’d work with people for two weeks, sometimes twelve weeks, it really varies. And my goal always was to or still is to empower new parents with information, but also instinct-trusting, as well, as I’d like to call it. So now I’m doing that work virtually, which is going well in terms of still being able to help parents talk through fears, help normalize things, help strategize around feedings sleeping baby wearing baths – all that sort of fun newborn stuff. I also run parents support groups, so I run parent support groups for first-time parents, second-time parents, and in September I’ll be doing a group for queer parents which I’m very excited about. So those are also really fun, it’s a set group of parents for six weeks, and just sort of a combination of me sort of sharing information about newborns but also parents connecting with each other, finding their village if you will. And the other hat that I wear is that I train providers on LGBTQ cultural humility and that’s been really cool, that’s been building more now that it’s virtual and feels a little more accessible for some folks not having to travel or the way that people have more flexible schedules and stuff so that’s been really great – that’s sort of like, I mean I love babies and I love parents but ending oppression is my heart work, so I need to do that more and sort of speak about my experience but also y’know challenge folks to think about their experience and ways in which they may or may not perpetuate oppression in the perinatal world. Has been really, super rewarding, so. Those are all my hats.

Katie: And they are such good hats!

Rachel: They’re very stylish.

Katie: What are you queering right now? 

Rachel: Great question, always, love that. The birth world, is my goal – to queer that. A lot. I think about, I think what’s so cool about that term is like, y’know we do this training, we talk about definitions of what the “alphabet soup” means, definitions of different types of oppression – all that. But also, when you queer things and think of things in more nonbinary nonlinear ways, that’s better for everyone. I mean some of the conversations I have with my new parents even– even when they’re a straight, married couple (god bless them), I think there are ways that we can think about division of labor, sex, parenting that I think come from a queer standpoint that again, are better for everyone. Some of the conversations I have with new parents about gendering their baby and helping them think through that, I think is really rooted in my queerness even though – again, the more the merrier.

Emma: I love that, Rachel. I think it’s so great to be able to, even when you’re working with straight and cis people, still kind of make your job a queer job (laughs), so that’s amazing.

Rachel: Otherwise, it wouldn’t be very much fun.

Emma: Exactly. Well you gotta make it sustainable. Part of making it sustainable for yourself. Amazing. So what inspired you originally to do this work?

Rachel: Excellent question, so I always like to say that the common thread in all the jobs I’ve ever had is that I really like supporting and teaching adults new things. Even though, almost all my jobs I’ve ever done all involve kids or babies in some ways. It’s really the coaching of adults that is my strength. So I was working at Read Boston, actually, which is a city program for kids and when I had my oldest, who like I said is almost 9 and a half. I had this really amazing birth experience: we had a home birth with midwives, I labored for, I like to brag: 76 hours…


Emma: BRAG!!!

Rachel: Oh, back labor – all the things. So, right – you can’t always control birth, but I really planned it and thought about it and had this really magical experience and then the midwife left and I had this little baby and I was like, “What do I do now? OMG.” I mean, my midwife supported us postpartum as well, but I just felt like there was such a lack of information, resources, support in that period and then I learned that it was a job, like, you could help people at that time as a job! Isn’t that cool? So I was a stay-at-home parent for a while, and then I actually did my postpartum doula training when she was only 9 months old, and I didn’t really start doing it more as a job until actually my youngest was born. So I have been doing it for about six years, but yeah I mean what sort of drew me to it. Sort of similar to birth doula work, or I think, I like to say that my job… I would like to live in the society where my job isn’t a job. Y’Know, where like, people are informed, people feel empowered, there’s better leave, there’s not a disconnect between what the baby needs and what the parents need, where there is like, seamless love care and support between pregnancy, birth and postpartum. So, I think we’re a long way away from that, but… That’s sort of what drew me to it. Long answer to your question.

Katie: I think you’ve touched on this in all of your answers, but just to be like really explicit about it: how do you talk about your philosophy of support?

Rachel: Oh, yeah, totally. So I’m gonna give you an example, actually. 


Katie: Yes, love it.


Rachel: My philosophy is definitely that parents feel empowered. I don’t have an agenda. I have information. And I always think about the first… not the first mom I worked with who had breastfeeding struggles, but the first mom I worked with who did not explicitly breastfeeding her baby. It’s like a real learning experience for me, because it really taught me that my goal is to actually… y’know, I breastfed my daughter til she was 3, my wife breastfed our youngest til she was 3 and a half – she wanted to beat me. Cause it’s a competition (laughs). I think about that mom and how she did not end up explicitly breastfeeding even though that had been her goal originally. But through every step of the process, she had information, she felt like she was making choices around pumping, bottles, formula, putting the baby to the breast, and she decided in the end to do a combination. For her it meant she got to sleep a little more in a different way, she got maybe a little more independence, she decided she didn’t want to pump the way the lactation consultant had suggested that she pump. I had to really be OK with that, and I realized: oh, well, that doesn’t feel bad to me in my job because she got to make all those choices, y’know. I’m a big proponent of breastfeeding, obviously, but I think sometimes the advice people are given is not sustainable from a mental health perspective. Helping people sort through that and feel like y’know the worst is when I have people who are in my groups and they’re already six weeks postpartum and like, no one told them or gave them the option to like, pump when their baby was 2 weeks old and given their baby a bunch of formula. That’s a travesty. But when they’re given choices and understand the consequences of their choices – not “consequences” in a mean way, but just like: yeah, if you give your baby a bunch of bottles and you don’t pump, you won’t make enough milk. That’s a thing. So, figuring out how to do that has been really a big learning experience for me. The point of that story being: my philosophy is information, empowerment, people trusting their gut, people not feeling like they have to sacrifice everything for their baby. This is like a big and totally related to oppression and sexism and patriarchy and all of those things. This idea of the self-sacrificing mother or parent, right? So really having people feel like, you can be a human being and have a baby and that baby is important and what’s best for you is what’s best for the baby – all that kind of stuff. So that’s my philosophy, in a nutshell. 

Emma: That’s awesome, it’s helpful to have examples like that of, y’know, client interactions, different points where you were like, “that was a major growth point for me.”

Rachel: Totally.

Emma: I love the idea of partners, (laughs) I don’t know, trying to beat each other with breastfeeding, that’s like – amazing to me.

Rachel: I mean, we’re both very stubborn and competitive, so that’s not something everyone does.


Emma: Well, speaking of that – you told us about your post-natal work, I wanna know about your natal chart and be honest. 

Rachel: I don’t actually know, so, I’m a what was the listing, it was, moon…


Emma: Sun, moon and rising/ascendednt

Rachel: So my friend says its Capricorn, Cancer and Scorpio


Emma: Oh man. (laughs)

Rachel: What is that response mean?? You have to tell me more.


Emma: I just have a response to scorpios, that’s all (laughs)

Katie: The real thing about these interviews it it’s just revealing Emma and my like, astrological biases (laughs)

Rachel: Is that a thing, astrological biases?

Emma: I mean, it is… implicit astrological biases (laughs)

Katie: Well, I will say: I dont know whats happening for Emma, but as a fellow Capricorn sun, I now feel much closer to you. (laughs)


Rachel: Okay, love that. Gonna learn a lot about my astrological chart in quarantine, and when the moon is full and all of those things… The very beginning of quarantine, I was going for a walk in the arboretum every time there was a full moon, that was really nice.


Emma: Right on, I love that.

Rachel: That’s related, right? 

Emma: Absolutely.

Rachel: That’s when you cleanse your crystals, with the full moon..


Emma: Put em out.

Katie: And aside from the crystals, what’s your favorite thing about being a queer support person, working with queer families?


Rachel: Such a good question. My favorite thing about everything is when it’s queer, so.. Duh. OK, I’ll give you a good example. So, one of the things that… so I think part of that is, as I said from before, how my queer lens helps straight couples navigate things that are traditional gender norms, heteronormativity, all that kind of stuff. One of the things that’s really cool that a lot of people really like about working with me is that I’ve been in both roles – I’ve been a birth parent but I’ve also been a non-birth parent, and so, this is gonna sound really funny, but I really like working with dads, like especially ones who are open to having feelings and and trying to figure out their role. Some of the coolest conversations I’ve had have been around talking to dads who have to like, go back to work in two weeks and work in these super macho environments where like, you don’t help with this/that or the other, or you’re expected to just leave your baby and not have feelings about it. Having these really empathic heart conversations with these dudes who are like, I love this baby and why is it OK that I have to go back? And I’m like, “Well it’s not OK, and that sucks! and you can have feelings about it!” Then also that piece around watching the person that you are partnered with and love go through some of that early postpartum hormones, pain, feelings and just how can you help and then help doesn’t always mean like taking over the feeding of the baby. That caring for that person is part of bonding with the baby. So I feel like that’s part of a pretty unique lens that I provide for families, straight and otherwise. So I like that. And what do I like about working with queer famililes? I mean, all the things, but also: let’s be really honest, its the kind of humor that you can use with queer folks that just really… like about lube, sex, bdsm all those things. I just feel like there’s so many ripe opportunities for that, and usually with queer folks, it’s like more welcome – although there’s definitely some straight folks where I make those jokes, too. That is one of my favorite things. Sort of insider culture stuff that we can joke about. I recently worked with a queer family who, she would send me photos and be like, “This is for my magazine that I’m gonna make” which was, oh god, what did she call it, it was like, “Butch Parenting Quarterly” and it’d be like pictures of her with like a drill, holding her baby – it was so hilarious. Like that stuff is gold. I need to follow up with her actually to see if she has any more photos that she has to share with me.

Emma: Get me a subscription to Butch Parenting Quarterly!

Katie: I want a calendar, can we have a calendar?

Rachel: I know, right?

Emma: Oh man, we’re gonna have a fundraiser for this… I love it, Rachel, and bless your soul for, y’know, being one of those people who fosters a supportive environment for dad feelings. Like, absolutely integral important soul work. I love you. So, if you could, y’know, thinking of queer and trans families, could you improve one main thing about their experience what would it be?

Rachel: It’s so interesting. I was thinking about this question, because I’ve been doing a lot of this, and I think that …… one of the things I talk about with cultural humility is this idea that you can’t just put a rainbow sticker on your door and be like (wipes shoulders) “I did it, I did all the work, I’m totally gay friendly.” There’s almost a way in which the thing that I want to change is, I want everyone to have to like, do a train-… like, the people that are the challenge are people who feel like they don’t have any more to learn, or don’t have any areas of growth. There’s a way in which that’s the thing I want to change. I want all providers to really, deeply understand and respect this idea of bringing your whole self into a room. Not “tolerance,” even the word “inclusivity” gets me a little. I mean one of the things I would say in my trainings, which, depending on the room, is I don’t want to be like you. I’m better than you because I’m queer. You know what I mean? Ha-ha, but also like: I want things to be where it’s not a deficit or “oh yeah you’re welcome to our straight space.” Where providers can really understand that, and I feel like that’s not a thing yet. It’s more just “Oh yeah, your wife, great I can be on board with that.” or “Oh yeah, I’ll use different pronouns than what I thought. I can be on board with that.” but it isn’t like, “Wow! That’s awesome that you’re queer. How cool!” I don’t know if I’m making sense but that’s the culture shift that I’m wanting to make. That I think impact queer families, but also everyone. A lot of the things I talk about will benefit single parents, or adoptive parents or like grandparents who are raising their kids or all that kind of stuff. 

Katie: Absolutely, so important. Those spaces that are not just like “You’re welcome here” but like, “You’re totally celebrated.” What’s one piece of advice that you have for new or aspiring queer and trans birth/postpartum/reproductive workers?

Rachel: Baby queers, you mean? 

Emma: Professional baby queers.

Katie: Possibly FULLY queers, but like, baby birth workers

Rachel: Baby birth workers, there ya go. Good distinction. I think one of the things that I’ve learned that I’ve talked about a little bit – You don’t have to compromise who you are to get people to hire you. The more fully you can be yourself, especially in your queerness, the better off that is for everyone. That’s actually a strength as opposed to like something straight people – are they gonna be weirded out? Or whatever? No- just be all the things. Be all the fabulous. 

Emma: That’s awesome, thank you so much for that.

(rachel’s kid walks in)

Emma: Yeah, so speaking of family members, other things going on in your life – what’s something not baby related, not natal about your life that you want to share with us?

Rachel: I would say, this summer we’ve done more beaching than we’ve ever done, and it’s been spectacular. I’m from northern California, so the ocean is my jam and so I’ve gone to swim in salt water this summer. That’s made me really, really happy.

Emma: That’s awesome. What’s your favorite beach around here?

Rachel: We go to Nantasket a lot, first thing in the morning before it gets crowded. And there’s a beach we go to in Woods Hole, actually. It’s far, but who cares? What else are we doing? I basically have two fish for children at this point, which I’m not complaining about. 

Emma: Love water humans. 

Rachel: And Nana in Weymouth has a pool. So we’ve also been doing that.

Katie: So much good water. 

Rachel: Exactly.


Katie: Where can people find you in internet land?

Rachel: Oh! It’s just rachelhessdoula.com. That’s my website. I also have a facebook page and someday I’ll have an Instagram account? For my doula work? But, not today. Those are the two main places, and Facebook is where I update when groups are happening and offer those. That’s a good place to find me.

Katie: Awesome, thank you so much!